Rx Diet

Question:

There is much talk these days regarding negative calorie foods. One wonders, how is it possible? Actually no food can be without any calorie. Negative calorie foods are those foods that require more calories to digest than their actual calorie content. Some of these foods are cabbage, broccoli, celery, etc. Others are from grains category. If you look at the list of negative calorie foods given in http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/negative-calorie-foods.com  you will see that they are vegetables and fruits. Notice that vegetables and fruits have more carbohydrates and fibers than fats. It is very easy to store dietary fat into body fat, but carbohydrates are much difficult to be converted into body fat. If you eat 100 gram of carbohydrates in a food, about 25 gram goes in just breaking and converting into fat molecules. Moreover, some of these natural plant foods have metabolism boosting effects. If we combine all these fact, we can understand their function as negative calorie foods. The advantage of these so called negative foods is that they can be incorporated into a perfect balanced diet (http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/weightloss) as per the food pyramid. This will definitely result in weight loss and a slim and fit body.

Response:

The only people talking about it hope that nobody realizes they are fools.  There are NO negative calorie foods. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is much talk these days regarding negative calorie foods. One wonders, how is it possible? Actually no food can be without any calorie. Negative calorie foods are those foods that require more calories to digest than their actual calorie content. Some of these foods are cabbage, broccoli, celery, etc. Others are from grains category. If you look at the list of negative calorie foods given in http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/negative-calorie-foods.com  you will see that they are vegetables and fruits. Notice that vegetables and fruits have more carbohydrates and fibers than fats. It is very easy to store dietary fat into body fat, but carbohydrates are much difficult to be converted into body fat. If you eat 100 gram of carbohydrates in a food, about 25 gram goes in just breaking and converting into fat molecules. Moreover, some of these natural plant foods have metabolism boosting effects. If we combine all these fact, we can understand their function as negative calorie foods. The advantage of these so called negative foods is that they can be incorporated into a perfect balanced diet (http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/weightloss) as per the food pyramid. This will definitely result in weight loss and a slim and fit body.

Response:

Negative calorie foods are those foods that require more calories to digest than their actual calorie content. Some of these foods are cabbage, broccoli, celery, etc. Others are from grains category.

This is debatable.  It’s extremely difficult to measure the calorie content of food with complete accuracy, and I don’t know of any way to measure the number of calories required to digest it accurate. Normally the major nutrient components of a food are identified and the energy requirement for their digestion is estimated.  It is fairly constant among foods, depending on their composition.  That is, sugars, starches, fats, and proteins generally require fairly constant amounts of energy to digest, no matter what their source–but the exact amounts required for a given food cannot be readily measured, whence the dubious character of the claim above. The foods you mention contain a lot of fiber.  Most fiber is indigestible, so it necessarily requires more energy to digest than it yields for use. However, these energy requirements are very small–so small that their utility in producing weight loss is negligeable.  That is, you cannot eat enough celery to produce any measurable weight loss solely through the caloric deficit generated by the digestion of the celery. A _far_ easier way to burn calories is to exercise.  Any exercise will do, and all forms of exercise will burn vastly more calories than one can burn from mere digestion. Finally, the best way to create a calorie deficit is to eat less.  It’s easier to create a 300 kcal deficit by eating 300 kcal less than it is to create the same deficit through exercise (usually). If you look at the list of negative calorie foods given in

http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/negative-calorie-foods.html you will see that they are vegetables and fruits.

The page makes a number of unsupported claims. These two paragraphs are particularly questionable: "All foods have a nutrient (carbohydrate, fat, protein), caloric (calories) and vitamin & mineral content. Vitamins stimulate living tissues to produce enzymes that breakdown the caloric nutrients of that foods. "The negative calorie foods contain sufficient vitamins & minerals that produce enzymes in quantities sufficient to break down not only its own calories, but additional calories present in digestion as well. This is the secret of The Negative Calorie Foods." The second and third statements are unsupported by any sources I’ve encountered.  If only it were that simple! Notice that vegetables and fruits have more carbohydrates and fibers than fats. It is very easy to store dietary fat into body fat, but carbohydrates are much difficult to be converted into body fat.

Only total calories matter.  The usual figure of 7 kcal per gram of fat is already adjusted to take into account the net caloric value of fat after the expense of all conversions (fat actually contains about 9 kcal per gram, but 2 kcal are required for the conversion processes). The same adjustments are made for the caloric values of other nutrients. Moreover, some of these natural plant foods have metabolism boosting effects.

No GRAS food produces durable or significant changes in metabolism. The advantage of these so called negative foods is that they can be incorporated into a perfect balanced diet (http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/weightloss) as per the food pyramid.  This will definitely result in weight loss and a slim and fit body.

Only total calories will determine long term weight gain or loss, irrespective of whether or not a diet is perfectly balanced.

Response:

Hello, The only people talking about it hope that nobody realizes they are fools.  There are NO negative calorie foods. What about vomit?

I don’t think that’d sell real well at Krogers.  I could be wrong though. *Somebody* is buying the cans of pork brains in gravy….. Carmen

Response:

The only people talking about it hope that nobody realizes they are fools.  There are NO negative calorie foods.

What about vomit?

Response:

Hi, I’m very sceptical of this theory of "Negative calorie foods". How many calories does it take to digest a head of broccoli? I’d be surprised if it was a measurable amount. Anyone have any data? (ie. independent, non- biased data?) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -There is much talk these days regarding negative calorie foods. One wonders, how is it possible? Actually no food can be without any calorie. Negative calorie foods are those foods that require more calories to digest than their actual calorie content. Some of these foods are cabbage, broccoli, celery, etc. Others are from grains category. If you look at the list of negative calorie foods given in http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/negative-calorie-foods.com you will see that they are vegetables and fruits. Notice that vegetables and fruits have more carbohydrates and fibers than fats. It is very easy to store dietary fat into body fat, but carbohydrates are much difficult to be converted into body fat. If you eat 100 gram of carbohydrates in a food, about 25 gram goes in just breaking and converting into fat molecules. Moreover, some of these natural plant foods have metabolism boosting effects. If we combine all these fact, we can understand their function as negative calorie foods. The advantage of these so called negative foods is that they can be incorporated into a perfect balanced diet (http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/weightloss) as per the food pyramid. This will definitely result in weight loss and a slim and fit body.

– Anna Hayward, Alien Visitor Email me at: alienvisitor AT ratbag DOT demon DOT co DOT uk Anna’s Pregnancy, Parenting and Autism page: http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/

Response:

No calories, but I’ve heard the body may use some to heat up cold water …

Here again, these are nickels and dimes, in a domain that deals normally in gold ingots.

Response:

The only ‘consumable’ that can be thought of as negative-calorie is water!! No calories, but I’ve heard the body may use some to heat up cold water – and of course the constant trips to the toilet help with burning calories! Just a thought… Laura

Response:

What about vomit?

Most people don’t eat vomit.  Furthermore, it’s mostly water, and vomiting depletes electrolytes much more than it reduces calories (in most cases–obviously vomiting the contents of a full stomach does reduce absorbed calories significantly).

Response:

The only people talking about it hope that nobody realizes they are fools. There are NO negative calorie foods.

The premise that some foods may require more energy to digest than they yield is certainly valid in very limited circumstances, but the notion that eating them is a practical way to burn extra calories, or that any food contains any combination of "vitamins and minerals" that can "burn fat," is unsupported and extremely dubious.

Response:

Always.  Anything that weren’t mostly water would be quite difficult to regurgitate. You obviously have never had children.

so, you do you eat children and regurgitate them often?

Response:

What about vomit? Most people don’t eat vomit.

How do you think it became vomit in the first place? Furthermore, it’s mostly water,

Not necessarily.

Response:

No calories, but I’ve heard the body may use some to heat up cold water … Here again, these are nickels and dimes, in a domain that deals normally in gold ingots.

Sorry, I was being sarcastic towards a stupid original post!  ;o)   (forgot my smiley before…) Still, I do get quite a bit of exercise going up and down stairs to the toilet/bathroom!! I go up stairs two at a time (like the crazy ideas from another recent post) and my backside is noticing the difference ;o) Whatever works I suppose… Laura

Response:

Always.  Anything that weren’t mostly water would be quite difficult to regurgitate.

You obviously have never had children.

Response:

How do you think it became vomit in the first place?

It was ejected from the stomach. Not necessarily.

Always.  Anything that weren’t mostly water would be quite difficult to regurgitate.

Response:

Oh, come on–mangoes? I LOVE ‘em but i doubt that they’re negative calorie! dave

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -There is much talk these days regarding negative calorie foods. One wonders, how is it possible? Actually no food can be without any calorie. Negative calorie foods are those foods that require more calories to digest than their actual calorie content. Some of these foods are cabbage, broccoli, celery, etc. Others are from grains category. If you look at the list of negative calorie foods given in http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/negative-calorie-foods.com you will see that they are vegetables and fruits. Notice that vegetables and fruits have more carbohydrates and fibers than fats. It is very easy to store dietary fat into body fat, but carbohydrates are much difficult to be converted into body fat. If you eat 100 gram of carbohydrates in a food, about 25 gram goes in just breaking and converting into fat molecules. Moreover, some of these natural plant foods have metabolism boosting effects. If we combine all these fact, we can understand their function as negative calorie foods. The advantage of these so called negative foods is that they can be incorporated into a perfect balanced diet (http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/weightloss) as per the food pyramid. This will definitely result in weight loss and a slim and fit body.

Utter nonsense! It is actually more difficult to store dietary fat as body fat than it is to store carbs as fat. The reason is that dietary fat must first be broken down into the components that the body can actually store – sugar. Even if you were a cannibal and ate someone’s body fat, directly – it wouldn’t matter. Your body would still have to laboriously break down the eaten fat and convert it to sugar, then, it could store some as body fat, but there is NO WAY the body can take dietary fat and directly convert it to body fat. And naturally, the breakdown order for the body is: 1) Simple sugars 2) Complex sugars (carbs) 3) Fats 4) Protein 5) Fibers which are almost (but not quite) totally undigestible. So simple sugars become fat easiest – not dietary fats. Also, there is NO diet that will result in a fit body. Fitness comes from exercise, not your diet. The reason people who eat lots of fat, get fat is because fat is crammed full of calories – like a hand grenade of calories. Per pound, fat has many times the calories of an equal amount of protein or carbs. While low calorie foods are a help to dieting, the whole concept of "negative calorie foods" is a half-truth leaning on a whole crutch. A dieter doesn’t need it, and shouldn’t rely on it, period. Walking 30 to 45 minutes a day, and sensibly restricting calories (especially empty calories with few nutrients), will allow a dieter to lose all the SAFE weight they can handle: 2 to 2.5 lbs per week. Dieter’s should NOT try to lose more that this, per week. You don’t need pills, herbs, special drinks, special foods, none of it! Save your money, and maybe your life, too! Nothing wrong with an occasional "meal" of ensure or slim-fast, etc., but be aware: you will feel very hungry before your next meal, because they have such a small bulk, and they can be high in simple sugars. darrz

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is much talk these days regarding negative calorie foods. One wonders, how is it possible? Actually no food can be without any calorie. Negative calorie foods are those foods that require more calories to digest than their actual calorie content. Some of these foods are cabbage, broccoli, celery, etc. Others are from grains category. If you look at the list of negative calorie foods given in http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/negative-calorie-foods.com you will see that they are vegetables and fruits. Notice that vegetables and fruits have more carbohydrates and fibers than fats. It is very easy to store dietary fat into body fat, but carbohydrates are much difficult to be converted into body fat. If you eat 100 gram of carbohydrates in a food, about 25 gram goes in just breaking and converting into fat molecules. Moreover, some of these natural plant foods have metabolism boosting effects. If we combine all these fact, we can understand their function as negative calorie foods. The advantage of these so called negative foods is that they can be incorporated into a perfect balanced diet (http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/weightloss) as per the food pyramid. This will definitely result in weight loss and a slim and fit body. Utter nonsense! It is actually more difficult to store dietary fat as body fat than it is to store carbs as fat. The reason is that dietary fat must first be broken down into the components that the body can actually store – sugar. Even if you were a cannibal and ate someone’s body fat, directly – it wouldn’t matter. Your body would still have to laboriously break down the eaten fat and convert it to sugar, then, it could store some as body fat, but there is NO WAY the body can take dietary fat and directly convert it to body fat. And naturally, the breakdown order for the body is: 1) Simple sugars 2) Complex sugars (carbs) 3) Fats 4) Protein 5) Fibers which are almost (but not quite) totally undigestible.

Actually, what I learned in nutrition in college is slightly different.  My understanding is that the breakdown of foods is according to the following: Sugars Complex Carbs Protein Fats Fiber. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So simple sugars become fat easiest – not dietary fats. Also, there is NO diet that will result in a fit body. Fitness comes from exercise, not your diet. The reason people who eat lots of fat, get fat is because fat is crammed full of calories – like a hand grenade of calories. Per pound, fat has many times the calories of an equal amount of protein or carbs. While low calorie foods are a help to dieting, the whole concept of "negative calorie foods" is a half-truth leaning on a whole crutch. A dieter doesn’t need it, and shouldn’t rely on it, period. Walking 30 to 45 minutes a day, and sensibly restricting calories (especially empty calories with few nutrients), will allow a dieter to lose all the SAFE weight they can handle: 2 to 2.5 lbs per week. Dieter’s should NOT try to lose more that this, per week.

The first few weeks of a diet, one can expect to lose more than two pounds a week if they severely restrict calories.  Fluid is lost initially, regardless of the diet.  Most experts recommend between 1.5 and 2 pounds a week as maximum weight loss.  Depending on your size, 2.5 pounds a week or even two pounds is an enormous task after the initial honeymoon period. Also, there is current research that says that weight training is a very valuable adjunct to weight loss.  Although you may not burn as many calories during a weight lifting routiine as you might during a run of the similar time, the added muscle plays an important role in ongoing fat loss.  1. Basal metabolism is raised for at least 24 hours post a weight lifting session.  2.  Muscle cells involved in the workout are more sensitive to insulin which can reduce appetitie in insulin resistant folks (maybe 1 in 5 of us).  3.  Human growth hormone is stimulated by weight lifting and that is powerful deterrant to fat storage.  4.   As muscles are developed, they are far more metabolically active than fat which means that you will require more calories a day just to stay the same weight.  5.  Muscles look good – regardless of gender. You don’t need pills, herbs, special drinks, special foods, none of it! Save your money, and maybe your life, too!

I am with you here except for a few exceptions where people may need medical intervention in the event of extreme obesity. Nothing wrong with an occasional "meal" of ensure or slim-fast, etc., but be aware: you will feel very hungry before your next meal, because they have such a small bulk, and they can be high in simple sugars.

Simple sugars are a huge problem for many of us.  I am cursed by a tendency to overeat for the rest of the day if I have even a little piece of candy. Other people, blessed as they are, can afford to eat some sugars and not have a profound reaction to them. j (155/143/125) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – darrz

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is much talk these days regarding negative calorie foods. One wonders, how is it possible? Actually no food can be without any calorie. Negative calorie foods are those foods that require more calories to digest than their actual calorie content. Some of these foods are cabbage, broccoli, celery, etc. Others are from grains category. If you look at the list of negative calorie foods given in http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/negative-calorie-foods.com you will see that they are vegetables and fruits. Notice that vegetables and fruits have more carbohydrates and fibers than fats. It is very easy to store dietary fat into body fat, but carbohydrates are much difficult to be converted into body fat. If you eat 100 gram of carbohydrates in a food, about 25 gram goes in just breaking and converting into fat molecules. Moreover, some of these natural plant foods have metabolism boosting effects. If we combine all these fact, we can understand their function as negative calorie foods. The advantage of these so called negative foods is that they can be incorporated into a perfect balanced diet (http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/weightloss) as per the food pyramid. This will definitely result in weight loss and a slim and fit body. Utter nonsense! It is actually more difficult to store dietary fat as body fat than it is to store carbs as fat. The reason is that dietary fat must first be broken down into the components that the body can actually store – sugar. Even if you were a cannibal and ate someone’s body fat, directly – it wouldn’t matter. Your body would still have to laboriously break down the eaten fat and convert it to sugar, then, it could store some as body fat, but there is NO WAY the body can take dietary fat and directly convert it to body fat. And naturally, the breakdown order for the body is: 1) Simple sugars 2) Complex sugars (carbs) 3) Fats 4) Protein 5) Fibers which are almost (but not quite) totally undigestible. So simple sugars become fat easiest – not dietary fats. Also, there is NO diet that will result in a fit body. Fitness comes from exercise, not your diet. The reason people who eat lots of fat, get fat is because fat is crammed full of calories – like a hand grenade of calories. Per pound, fat has many times the calories of an equal amount of protein or carbs. While low calorie foods are a help to dieting, the whole concept of "negative calorie foods" is a half-truth leaning on a whole crutch. A dieter doesn’t need it, and shouldn’t rely on it, period. Walking 30 to 45 minutes a day, and sensibly restricting calories (especially empty calories with few nutrients), will allow a dieter to lose all the SAFE weight they can handle: 2 to 2.5 lbs per week. Dieter’s should NOT try to lose more that this, per week. You don’t need pills, herbs, special drinks, special foods, none of it! Save your money, and maybe your life, too! Nothing wrong with an occasional "meal" of ensure or slim-fast, etc., but be aware: you will feel very hungry before your next meal, because they have such a small bulk, and they can be high in simple sugars. darrz

Since this is cross posted everywhere already, I might as well cross post it to misc.fitness.weights, where we can have some fun with this person. He/She has flooded ASD with some good IOM stuff.  This person gives some good advice, but then screws it up with some disinformation.  You get a good glimpse of it in the above excerpt. — Ted Current quote: "It can’t be like this…" http://hometown.aol.com/rhwbullhead

Response:

Also, there is current research that says that weight training is a very valuable adjunct to weight loss.  Although you may not burn as many calories during a weight lifting routiine as you might during a run of the similar time, the added muscle plays an important role in ongoing fat loss.  1. Basal metabolism is raised for at least 24 hours post a weight lifting session.  2.  Muscle cells involved in the workout are more sensitive to insulin which can reduce appetitie in insulin resistant folks (maybe 1 in 5 of us).  3.  Human growth hormone is stimulated by weight lifting and that is powerful deterrant to fat storage.  4.   As muscles are developed, they are far more metabolically active than fat which means that you will require more calories a day just to stay the same weight.

Nicely said.  5.  Muscles look good – regardless of gender.

This was researched? lol

Response:

Well, my research consisted of reviewing the covers of fashion magazines while in line at the grocery store.  I must admit that I personally was more impressed with the men on muscle magazines but it is obvious that many of the fashion models are quite toned.

It’s certainly in fashion…look at the soaps and you see upper body lifters all over the place. Although they have a way to go to be more realistic, at least we have gotten away from the waif look of the 80’s where women were considered attractive only if they resembled young boys and lived on cocaine and champagne!

And ciggies.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also, there is current research that says that weight training is a very valuable adjunct to weight loss.  Although you may not burn as many calories during a weight lifting routiine as you might during a run of the similar time, the added muscle plays an important role in ongoing fat loss.  1. Basal metabolism is raised for at least 24 hours post a weight lifting session.  2.  Muscle cells involved in the workout are more sensitive to insulin which can reduce appetitie in insulin resistant folks (maybe 1 in 5 of us).  3.  Human growth hormone is stimulated by weight lifting and that is powerful deterrant to fat storage.  4.   As muscles are developed, they are far more metabolically active than fat which means that you will require more calories a day just to stay the same weight. Nicely said.  5.  Muscles look good – regardless of gender. This was researched? lol

Well, my research consisted of reviewing the covers of fashion magazines while in line at the grocery store.  I must admit that I personally was more impressed with the men on muscle magazines but it is obvious that many of the fashion models are quite toned.  Although they have a way to go to be more realistic, at least we have gotten away from the waif look of the 80’s where women were considered attractive only if they resembled young boys and lived on cocaine and champagne! j

Response:

But I don’t expect the average dieter to add 45 minutes a day of aerobic exercise, (and at least a bit of time for the diet diary and such not), and ALSO do weight training. In my opinion, that’s a bit much.

No dieter would need to train 7 days of aerobics or 7 days of strength training. How about 30-40 minutes walking on a treadmill with 2 days a week complete body strength training? The aerobics are essential (to me), while dieting. Weight training while dieting, is not. In fact, it will cover up a lot of dieting with muscles, and the dieter may never learn their real food intake set point, or balance point.

Only if that dieter quits training and the differences would be small and easily adjustable. I’m sure a lot of it depends on how you weight train. Once you learn weight training properly, you can start bulking up (with muscle) VERY quickly.

Uh, maybe, most probably not. When I diet, I can’t be sure the diet will succeed without a lot of attention…

Then you and your diet are doomed to failure.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is much talk these days regarding negative calorie foods. One wonders, how is it possible? Actually no food can be without any calorie. Negative calorie foods are those foods that require more calories to digest than their actual calorie content. Some of these foods are cabbage, broccoli, celery, etc. Others are from grains category. If you look at the list of negative calorie foods given in http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/negative-calorie-foods.com you will see that they are vegetables and fruits. Notice that vegetables and fruits have more carbohydrates and fibers than fats. It is very easy to store dietary fat into body fat, but carbohydrates are much difficult to be converted into body fat. If you eat 100 gram of carbohydrates in a food, about 25 gram goes in just breaking and converting into fat molecules. Moreover, some of these natural plant foods have metabolism boosting effects. If we combine all these fact, we can understand their function as negative calorie foods. The advantage of these so called negative foods is that they can be incorporated into a perfect balanced diet (http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/weightloss) as per the food pyramid. This will definitely result in weight loss and a slim and fit body. Utter nonsense! It is actually more difficult to store dietary fat as body fat than it is to store carbs as fat. The reason is that dietary fat must first be broken down into the components that the body can actually store – sugar. Even if you were a cannibal and ate someone’s body fat, directly – it wouldn’t matter. Your body would still have to laboriously break down the eaten fat and convert it to sugar, then, it could store some as body fat, but there is NO WAY the body can take dietary fat and directly convert it to body fat. And naturally, the breakdown order for the body is: 1) Simple sugars 2) Complex sugars (carbs) 3) Fats 4) Protein 5) Fibers which are almost (but not quite) totally undigestible. Actually, what I learned in nutrition in college is slightly different.  My understanding is that the breakdown of foods is according to the following: Sugars Complex Carbs Protein Fats Fiber.

Think of what happens when you diet, successfully. You always lose some protein (muscle) mass, but most of your weight loss will be from fat. This leads to my conclusion of fats before most (but not all) protein. You lose weight just the opposite of how you gain it: The first thing to be depleted is your immediate energy stores of sugars in the bloodstream. The second thing to be depleted will be your muscles energy stores of glycogen. What is glycogen? One entry found for glycogen. Main Entry: gly