Rx Diet

Question:

::

::::: ::::::: After reading many messages here from people who have regained ::::::: 50 – 100 lbs after losing that weight on a low carb diet, it’s ::::::: become clear to me that it is precisely those dieters who ::::::: adhere to the diet most strictly who seem to be most prone to ::::::: fall into the disasterous binge/quit/regain trap. :::::: ::::::  I’m afraid that the statement is pure bull shit and nothing that :::::: follows is worth reading. :::::: ::::: PJx, ::::: ::::: You are obviously either a newbie or have your head completely ::::: stuck up your ass.  Jenny is absolutely right.  And be extra ::::: careful; it’s the self-righteous that fall the hardest. ::: ::: You can say that again….Jenny is absolutely right, imo. ::: :: ::  No, it is an unproven theory of yours, but there is absolutely no :: scientific study that supports it. :: ::   Sorry, but it really is pure bull shit. Doesn’t matter that there is no scientific study.  It’s not bullshit, either.

Response:

Well, it does seem logical to me that when people go on "diets" they expect eventually to go off them.  If they weren’t feeling that the diet deprived them somehow they wouldn’t want to go off it.   When they go off they return to their old ways that got them fat in the first place.  The people who succeed in maintaining weight loss have a different mind set, they have a different way of eating now which is a permanent lifestyle change, not a temporary fix that won’t last. Actually, that is the one good thing about Dr. Phil’s approach, he emphasizes making permanent lifestyle changes.

|| ||  No, it is an unproven theory of yours, but there is absolutely no || scientific study that supports it. || ||   Sorry, but it really is pure bull shit. || || PJ

Response:

thank you Melisa… you said it so well… I have started to think of all of my eating choices as responding to a MEDICAL condition as opposed to "being on a diet", something that I HAVE TO DO as opposed to something that I CHOOSE to do. By thinking that sugar/hi-carb living is something that MAKES ME SICK, I am having better mental discipline walking away from all of the office candy and pizza sharing that this time of year. Happy Holidays to all of the posters here… Nancyy Bakker (thinner,in older clothes but ITCHING up a storm!)

Response:

: But they’ll never fall as hard as the French. God bless the French.  Everything for them is an art-form. David

Response:

: But they’ll never fall as hard as the French. God bless the French.  Everything for them is an art-form. David

Even the "Surrender".

Response:

After reading many messages here from people who have regained 50 – 100 lbs after losing that weight on a low carb diet, it’s become clear to me that it is precisely those dieters who adhere to the diet most strictly who seem to be most prone to fall into the disasterous binge/quit/regain trap.

Depends on what you mean by "strict".  For me, "strict" means following my plan of choice as it is written, not treating it like a fad diet. What I’d suggest is that you schedule a carb up sometime after you’ve gotten into the groove with your low carb diet–ideally six weeks in or even more. Schedule a carb up that takes you about 40 grams higher than what you eat.

Ah.  I see.  Well, I’ve been on Atkins for 4.5 years at this point and it is clear you aren ‘t referring to following Atkins strictly.  If you follow Atkins strictly, as in following all of the directions, then your carb quotas by week go in a sequence like this: 20, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40.  You see, by week 6 you are *supposed* to be at forty.  No carbing up in that, just plain following the directions.  ALL of the directions. So I offer a rewrite of what you’ve written.  You’re actually referring to folks who treat low carbing as a fad diet and stay as low as possible as long as possible.  Yup, I completely agree that the dropout rate among fad dieters is very high.  And I also completely agree that if you switch from a fad diet to a sustainable way of life your chances of staying are higher. Resist the temptation to treat your plan as a fad diet, folks.  Pick a plan and follow it the way it’s really written.  If you pick Atkins find your CCLL.  If you pick PP move up to 50.  If you pick CAD follow the portion ratios and time limits on your big meal.  But do NOT stop at some point. Don’t stay on Induction and claim that what you’re doing is "strict". That’s not what the word means.

Response:

| Before you click the following link, put any hot beverages or lap-cats | down.  You have been warned. | | http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/victories.html | Hint"  Change "French" to "Napoleon" in the google search.  (The URL your refer to is obviously a comedy site.)  You’ll find thousands of references to the military victories.  Of course, many would also like to forget that the Colonies would still be bowing to the British Queen if the French had not helped in the Revolution … Peter

Response:

| Before you click the following link, put any hot beverages or lap-cats | down.  You have been warned. | http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/victories.html

Hee hee hee I’m a quarter French and still that was amusing. Almost as good as the Bush one a few weeks ago though (admittedly that was a real Google action, this is a spoof on Google)… anyone remember the phrase to type into Google to get to the Bush bio on the White House page? Insufferable failure? Nope. Colossal hopeless failure? Not it either. (Help?) Hint"  Change "French" to "Napoleon" in the google search.  (The URL your refer to is obviously a comedy site.)  You’ll find thousands of references to the military victories.  Of course, many would also like to forget that the Colonies would still be bowing to the British Queen if the French had not helped in the Revolution …

Yes, Napoleon was no slouch. But we in the US owe our thanks to the French for our independence in the Revolution? Help, yes, but the deciding factor, I don’t think so. Sarah Jahn

Response:

Before you click the following link, put any hot beverages or lap-cats down.  You have been warned. http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/victories.html Hee hee hee I’m a quarter French and still that was amusing. Almost as good as the Bush one a few weeks ago though (admittedly that was a real Google action, this is a spoof on Google)…

Er, the apropriate google action sends me to that page. anyone remember the phrase to type into Google to get to the Bush bio on the White House page? Insufferable failure? Nope. Colossal hopeless failure? Not it either. (Help?)

"miserable failure" — revek You can’t go around building a better world for people. Only people can build a better world for people. Otherwise it’s just a cage. {Witches Abroad, 1991}

Response:

  If you pick Atkins find your CCLL.  If you pick PP move up to 50.  If you pick CAD follow the portion ratios and time limits on your big meal.  But do NOT stop at some point. Don’t stay on Induction and claim that what you’re doing is "strict". That’s not what the word means.

Doug: If you have a lot of weight to lose, how long can you stay on induction? Listening to the CD that came with the Atkins book and cards, it is implied that one can stay on induction for years with no trouble… at least 2 testimonials state that. Thanks, Nancyy Bakker

Response:

After reading messages from many new dieters about how they aren’t going to go off plan for Christmas, it occurred to me that they may be missing an important learning experience. After reading many messages here from people who have regained 50 – 100 lbs after losing that weight on a low carb diet, it’s become clear to me that it is precisely those dieters who adhere to the diet most strictly who seem to be most prone to fall into the disasterous binge/quit/regain trap.

<snip Jenny, I have been following this thread with interest and thinking about your comments, which I think are excellent.  I believe strongly that a sure way to sabotage a weight loss diet it to martyr yourself to it, leading to feelings of deprivation that can lead to uncontrollable backsliding.  This is especially true for those of us who have had a lifelong complex of treating food as simultaneous comfort and punishment. The other side of that coin, however, is knowing one’s own limitations and weaknesses, and avoiding situations in which the impulses to self-sabotage take over.  As an example, I went to two Chanukah dinners and a Christmas dinner, all in the past week.  Here is a partial list of the foods I did not touch at these parties that I would have chowed down upon eagerly prior to beginning my current weight loss program:  latkes, apple pie, wine, chocolate cheesecake, Krispy Kreme doughnuts, and rice pudding.  Although I went in planning to have (say) one latke, or one bite of a nice dessert just for the taste, when I was there with the treats in front of me, I decided it was better not to do this.  I know myself, and I know how hard it would be for me to stop at one.  It was easier for me to avoid the danger foods altogether than it would have been to enjoy them in moderation.  I understand my relationship with food at this level. I didn’t want to have a carb-up and go "back on program" the day after each of these parties, or even after one of them.  I made a different choice.  I felt deprived (especially when the Krispy Kremes were on the table!) but I also felt proud of myself.  Perhaps after six months or a year of hard weight-loss dieting I will be ready for a planned carb-up, but not yet. carla 237/224/165?

Response:

Carla, It sounds like you have your head on straight! I do something very similar. There are some foods I can’t eat without feeling like crap afterwards–like big chocolate chip cookies, muffins, and bagels. Over the past year, after experimenting with theim, I have decided they just aren’t worth it.  Sometimes I’ll go into the bakery, stand in front of the case with the goodies, and do what I jokingly call "extracting the mana" from them. ("Mana" is a Polynesian term for magical essence.) What this means is I concentrate on the food item, imagine what it tastes like, imagine eating it, and then walk away.  This can be oddly satisfying because very little that you eat really lives up to the imagined experience of eating it. Those few things that do live up to the dream, well, I eat them from time to time. I pigged out as planned yesterday, and by 3:30 in the afternoon felt so toxic I was eagerly looking forward to getting back onto the low carb regimen. But on the way there I ate a whole lot of objects of desire, none of which began to live up to the mental image I’d built for it. So today I went to the store and swapped a big expensive chocolate gift someone gave me for a big expensive hunk of my favorite French Cheese (Fromage Des Clarines.) And after eating what had to be 200 grams of carbs yesterday, I woke up down a pound this morning! — Jenny Cut the carbs to respond to my new email address! New photo: http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/jennypics.htm Weight: 168.5/137 Diabetes Type II diagnosed 8/1998 – HBa1c 5.2 10/03 Low Carb 9/1998 – 8/2001 and 11/10/02 – Now http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each month *  Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings * Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats * Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath * Exercise Starting from Zero *  Do Starch Blockers Work? * NEW! Why the Low Carb Diet is Great for Diabetes  * NEW!  Low Carb Strategies for People with Diabetes

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After reading messages from many new dieters about how they aren’t going to go off plan for Christmas, it occurred to me that they may be missing an important learning experience. After reading many messages here from people who have regained 50 – 100 lbs after losing that weight on a low carb diet, it’s become clear to me that it is precisely those dieters who adhere to the diet most strictly who seem to be most prone to fall into the disasterous binge/quit/regain trap. <snip Jenny, I have been following this thread with interest and thinking about your comments, which I think are excellent.  I believe strongly that a sure way to sabotage a weight loss diet it to martyr yourself to it, leading to feelings of deprivation that can lead to uncontrollable backsliding.  This is especially true for those of us who have had a lifelong complex of treating food as simultaneous comfort and punishment. The other side of that coin, however, is knowing one’s own limitations and weaknesses, and avoiding situations in which the impulses to self-sabotage take over.  As an example, I went to two Chanukah dinners and a Christmas dinner, all in the past week.  Here is a partial list of the foods I did not touch at these parties that I would have chowed down upon eagerly prior to beginning my current weight loss program:  latkes, apple pie, wine, chocolate cheesecake, Krispy Kreme doughnuts, and rice pudding.  Although I went in planning to have (say) one latke, or one bite of a nice dessert just for the taste, when I was there with the treats in front of me, I decided it was better not to do this.  I know myself, and I know how hard it would be for me to stop at one.  It was easier for me to avoid the danger foods altogether than it would have been to enjoy them in moderation.  I understand my relationship with food at this level. I didn’t want to have a carb-up and go "back on program" the day after each of these parties, or even after one of them.  I made a different choice.  I felt deprived (especially when the Krispy Kremes were on the table!) but I also felt proud of myself.  Perhaps after six months or a year of hard weight-loss dieting I will be ready for a planned carb-up, but not yet. carla 237/224/165?

Response:

Nancyy, The thing to remember about eating at any level of carbs (or calories) is that if you do it for a very long time and lose significant weight at that level, you are going to have to keep eating at that level or face a very real possibility of weight gain. Dr. Richard Bernstein, the diabetes doctor/author who I respect enormously, not the least reason being that he doesn’t hawk products or make the diet sound easy, simple, and fun, comes right out and says this in his book. I have found it to be true. So you’d do better to find the very highest level of carbs and calories at which you can lose weight and stay there long term, so that when you have lost the weight you’ll be able to continue eating what you were eating when you lost it and not end up regaining. People imagine that when they reach goal they’ll be able to boost their carbs way up again, or add in a lot of calories. My experience is that while I can boost carbs a bit, I have to watch calories like a hawk and that I regain at levels much lower than what the formulas say I should be able to eat. This is partially because I’m middle aged and have type II diabetes, but I’m not the only person who has found that the difference between maintenance and the weight loss diet is not a huge amount of food. Also, cutting carbs alone won’t necessarily improve weight loss. I was in ketosis for almost 3 years without losing a pound. What worked for me was limiting protein too, watching portion size, counting calories and taking a medicine that counteracted my insulin resistance. — Jenny Cut the carbs to respond to my new email address! New photo: http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/jennypics.htm Weight: 168.5/137 Diabetes Type II diagnosed 8/1998 – HBa1c 5.2 10/03 Low Carb 9/1998 – 8/2001 and 11/10/02 – Now http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each month *  Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings * Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats * Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath * Exercise Starting from Zero *  Do Starch Blockers Work? * NEW! Why the Low Carb Diet is Great for Diabetes  * NEW!  Low Carb Strategies for People with Diabetes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   If you pick Atkins find your CCLL.  If you pick PP move up to 50.  If you pick CAD follow the portion ratios and time limits on your big meal.  But do NOT stop at some point. Don’t stay on Induction and claim that what you’re doing is "strict". That’s not what the word means. Doug: If you have a lot of weight to lose, how long can you stay on induction? Listening to the CD that came with the Atkins book and cards, it is implied that one can stay on induction for years with no trouble… at least 2 testimonials state that. Thanks, Nancyy Bakker

Response:

Almost as good as the Bush one a few weeks ago though (admittedly that was a real Google action, this is a spoof on Google)… Er, the apropriate google action sends me to that page.

Well, I mean that http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/victories.html brings up a page that LOOKS like Google but has this at the bottom: "Parody transcripted

Question:

hello, I was wondering if anyone here has advise about combining low-carb diets with the prescription diet pills that are available now, for example meridia or phentermine. Have these been useful at combating stalls, or increase weight loss? Susan

Response:

hello, I was wondering if anyone here has advise about combining low-carb diets with the prescription diet pills that are available now, for example meridia or phentermine. Have these been useful at combating stalls, or increase weight loss? Susan

Part of the beauty of the low carb WOE is that ketosis provides natural appetite suppression without the need for drugs. Since you are already getting this benefit from the low carb you really need to be under a doctors supervision if you are having so much difficulty that you need to combine drugs with low carb WOE.   A doctor can rule out things like thyroid problems and monitor you so that you don’t end up getting bad side effects.  Some people do very well on a doctor supervised liquid high protein diets when fast weight loss is necessary.        

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Phony baloney’s _____ what? You are incorrect! You did not refer to whatever possesion you said you were. Sheesh, can’t you just admit you were grammatically incorrect?? If you do NOT include the possesion aforementioned, then you got it WRONG. The "phony baloney’s" refers to the non-prescription diet spammers. Thus, there is no noun immediately following it. I am correct in this instance. Why should I claim a lie? I’m not going to dig out a Chicago style manual and digress on it further. Whatever. You’re wrong, but it’s OK to be wrong. We’re all wrong once in a while, there’s no crime in being wrong. I posted a great site about the mercury levels in canned tuna and I found out something I didn’t know. You don’t have to come into asd and act like you know everything. You don’t have to try and amaze us with your knowledge of chemistry. You can just join asd and be a supportive, cool person, willing to listen and LEARN from others. That’s a cool thing!

No, you’re wrong, and it’s OK for you to be wrong – again. You appear to be wrong more than you’re right, and there’s no crime in your being wrong. (couldn’t resist) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You may believe otherwise, but it seems clear to me that you see fit to "correct" my posts, not just because you’re an editor; but because you are an editor, AND I slammed your ng buddy. darrz Oh, you know so little about me. So very little. I support people in here. I work hard towards my goals. I don’t have any "buddies" as you so incorrectly post. I figuratively jumped on you, because, on your first day here, you act like a pushy jerk. Sorry, but you have. It’s not too late to change. Be supportive. That means posting support FOR OTHERS. I haven’t seen that from you yet. And, the very cool thing, in fact, the MOST cool thing about asd is how much support you will receive from everyone when you stumble, have a problem, no will power, etc. By the looks of your prior post, you have some probs. there. Hey, we all do. Martha

I NEVER SAID I knew you, Martha! I said it seems clear to me that you see fit to "correct" my posts, not just because you’re an editor; but because you are an editor AND I slammed your ng buddy. ** But you say: " I support people in here." OK. But I say: "You support SOME people in here." You did NOT correct ANY of the posts that called me a moron, scumbag, or fuckwit. So you obviously don’t support EVERYONE in here, isn’t that right, Martha? Even when they’re flamed repeatedly with the most juvenile name-calling. Even when those flaming posts include obvious, glaring grammatical errors. So where’s my support, Martha?. See? That’s my point. You support SOME people in here, but not everyone. Those people whom you support the most, are the people I would refer to as your "ng friends" or "ng buddies". You say "I don’t have any "buddies" as you so incorrectly post". But that isn’t true, is it? You describe me as "a pushy jerk". I dared to correct a name-callers spelling, and immediately you posted up your "correction" to my post, and continue to do so. I believe your posts in this matter to be needlessly nitpicking and arguably argumentative. (the second is a poor alliteration, but I’ll use it) What I call "supportive advise", you may interpret as just me being pushy, again. Perhaps I should apologize for taking a physiology class and an exercise physiology lab, decades ago, and not forgetting everything I learned, but I won’t. Now that I’ve stumbled upon Bailey’s book "The Ultimate Fit or Fat", I might just refer the argumentative types to that source. I’ve only read 50 pages, but it agrees completely with what I remember from my classes and my success on my previous diet. As far as problems in dieting – I’ll have very few, I’m sure. A good program and good initial attention to that program, eliminate nearly all problems of dieting. The "moral" support and camaraderie which I might seek here will be directed elsewhere. Nitpicking nitwits are not the kind of ng friends, supporter, or advisers, I would want. darrz

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not a part of the ‘tightknit’ group but I will point out that by reposting the entire spam post it is you that is giving them free advertising. Not all news servers get all posts. By reposting it you increase the chance that more people will see it. If you feel you must reply to spam then at least snip out the URL and contact number. Better yet, learn to read headers, trace IP numbers, and turn them in to their ISPs for abuse. Welcome. When you clearly state the advertised product is unsafe, untested, and may be fatal, what kind of positive advertising is that? If more people see the truth, it doesn’t keep me awake at night. Good note on turning them in, of course. Where did you see the word positive in my post? I said free.

I introduced another concept in my post, and another word. You said "free", I introduced "positive". Yes, I agree, there may always be people looking for shortcuts to weight loss. And I think a few regulars on this ng have found a HUGE shortcut: remove from their brains anything connected with deeper thought or good manners. Insert argumentative nitpicking, snide quips, and/or drivel devoid of common sense. When consumers see advertising with strong warnings advising them NOT to use the product, they make the association of product and the warning, and DON’T BUY THE PRODUCT. One consumer may even tell her friend "You know, I saw a post on the diet ng last night saying that product was unsafe and could be fatal." I’m not into restricting access to any advertised products. I don’t believe that is the purpose of the internet. I will however, try to post up what I believe is helpful, thoughtful, and as true as I can state it, about products I believe are dangerous and/or a rip off. I hope you can find it in your heart to do the same, and not just nitpick and argue. darrz

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not a part of the ‘tightknit’ group but I will point out that by reposting the entire spam post it is you that is giving them free advertising. Not all news servers get all posts. By reposting it you increase the chance that more people will see it. If you feel you must reply to spam then at least snip out the URL and contact number. Better yet, learn to read headers, trace IP numbers, and turn them in to their ISPs for abuse. Welcome. When you clearly state the advertised product is unsafe, untested, and may be fatal, what kind of positive advertising is that? If more people see the truth, it doesn’t keep me awake at night. Good note on turning them in, of course.

Where did you see the word positive in my post? I said free. Regardless of the negative things *you* say about it there will always be people who are looking for shortcuts to weightloss. By reposting the URL and contact number you are providing them the access they might not have had. It’s that simple. It’s obvious you will do what you feel like doing no matter what I say but don’t fool yourself into thinking you’re helping anyone by reposting spam in its entirety. It’s also obvious from other posts that you would rather rip out your tongue than admit you’re wrong so don’t expect another reply from me. Trollish arguing for the sake of arguing is boring and immature. I have better things to do than waste time nitpicking with you. Good luck with your weightloss. — Jeri 265/200/120 Atkins since 11/5/01 "Whether you think you can or think you can’t, you’re right."

Response:

Phony baloney’s _____ what? You are incorrect! You did not refer to whatever possesion you said you were. Sheesh, can’t you just admit you were grammatically incorrect?? If you do NOT include the possesion aforementioned, then you got it WRONG. The "phony baloney’s" refers to the non-prescription diet spammers. Thus, there is no noun immediately following it. I am correct in this instance. Why should I claim a lie? I’m not going to dig out a Chicago style manual and digress on it further.

Whatever. You’re wrong, but it’s OK to be wrong. We’re all wrong once in a while, there’s no crime in being wrong. I posted a great site about the mercury levels in canned tuna and I found out something I didn’t know. You don’t have to come into asd and act like you know everything. You don’t have to try and amaze us with your knowledge of chemistry. You can just join asd and be a supportive, cool person, willing to listen and LEARN from others. That’s a cool thing! Allegedly, this is a diet support ng, and that’s my focus. I hope it’s yours.

I see zero support from you, just bossiness. I do hope you learn to support others as I have over the months. : ) How revealing that my post, correcting an obvious spelling error, should earn your ire, while pre-school manners don’t get a second post from you. You may believe otherwise, but it seems clear to me that you see fit to "correct" my posts, not just because you’re an editor; but because you are an editor, AND I slammed your ng buddy. darrz

Oh, you know so little about me. So very little. I support people in here. I work hard towards my goals. I don’t have any "buddies" as you so incorrectly post. I figuratively jumped on you, because, on your first day here, you act like a pushy jerk. Sorry, but you have. It’s not too late to change. Be supportive. That means posting support FOR OTHERS. I haven’t seen that from you yet. And, the very cool thing, in fact, the MOST cool thing about asd is how much support you will receive from everyone when you stumble, have a problem, no will power, etc. By the looks of your prior post, you have some probs. there. Hey, we all do. Martha – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I’m not a part of the ‘tightknit’ group but I will point out that by reposting the entire spam post it is you that is giving them free advertising. Not all news servers get all posts. By reposting it you increase the chance that more people will see it. If you feel you must reply to spam then at least snip out the URL and contact number. Better yet, learn to read headers, trace IP numbers, and turn them in to their ISPs for abuse.

Welcome. When you clearly state the advertised product is unsafe, untested, and may be fatal, what kind of positive advertising is that? If more people see the truth, it doesn’t keep me awake at night. Good note on turning them in, of course. darrz

Response:

Phony baloney’s _____ what? You are incorrect! You did not refer to whatever possesion you said you were. Sheesh, can’t you just admit you were grammatically incorrect?? If you do NOT include the possesion aforementioned, then you got it WRONG.

The "phony baloney’s" refers to the non-prescription diet spammers. Thus, there is no noun immediately following it. I am correct in this instance. Why should I claim a lie? I’m not going to dig out a Chicago style manual and digress on it further. Allegedly, this is a diet support ng, and that’s my focus. I hope it’s yours. I’m not here to argue grammar, or even diets / exercise, with you or anyone else. I say what I think, feel, and or believe. I tend to speak directly and in a straightforward manner. Posting "Yes, it is", and "No, it isn’t", is neither emotionally pleasing, nor intellectually satisfying, to me. As I said, the reason and the only reason I jumped on the "truely you are a moron" post, because it was just juvenile name calling, and rude. How revealing that my post, correcting an obvious spelling error, should earn your ire, while pre-school manners don’t get a second post from you. You may believe otherwise, but it seems clear to me that you see fit to "correct" my posts, not just because you’re an editor; but because you are an editor, AND I slammed your ng buddy. darrz

Response:

I’m starting to understand that a few of the ng regulars are somewhat "socially challenged".

lol You noticed, huh?

Response:

Look in the mirror, sweetie. Martha As you surmised, "baloney’s" was the possessive form and it is correct.

No, it wasn’t. I surmised you screwed up! Baloney’s what. What possesion of this person named Baloney were you referring? Here is your exact phrase: "And when I do respond to the phony baloney’s," Phony baloney’s _____ what? You are incorrect! You did not refer to whatever possesion you said you were. Sheesh, can’t you just admit you were grammatically incorrect?? If you do NOT include the possesion aforementioned, then you got it WRONG. Certainly ng posts are not intended to be essays or articles, and I do not give or expect perfect spelling, grammar, or punctuation.

Well, by pointing out someone else’s error in grammar and being wrong yourself, I needed to tell you about it. You still have no idea what you did wrong, do you? I just couldn’t resist the temptation to take a poke at "truely" because it was such an easy word to spell, and because I believe such name calling is rude.

I think you’re a bit rude yourself. As "determined" has posted that several posters here are "tight", I think it’s laudable that you stand up for your friend. I understand that I’ve ticked some posters off with my excess of zeal and rather direct manner of phrasing my posts.

Nope, I’m not tight with anyone. I just never jumped in here and tried to tell others what to do. I meant to state my thoughts and beliefs on weight loss through dieting, not encourage myself or others to practice their name-calling, sarcasm, etc.

How about learning something you don’t know? Obviously, you’re not at goal weight, so surely there are things you don’t know, correct? My apologies to you, Martha, and best wishes.

No need to apologize, just realize I’m a writer and editor and will pounce on someone if they criticize someone else for a grammar error and then they make one themselves. : ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You may have an etiquette of no responses to spam, etc., all well and good. But in my town, we lost three perfectly healthy marines from these non-prescription diet aids in the last year. Just maybe one of their wives or friends would have seen a cautionary post such as mine, and said "hey, you maybe shouldn’t take that stuff". Just maybe if we did that regularly, the spammers wouldn’t even post to this ng, because they got such negative publicity as a result. Your etiquette gives the spammers unchallenged free advertising. My etiquette takes that away, and might even save a life, down the road. I don’t usually read spam in a ng, but if I read one, and it’s hazardous – yes, I will respond negatively. Three young healthy lives, snuffed out in just my town, in ONE year, is just too important to overlook. I’m saddened that you don’t feel that lives are more important than an etiquette that saves you a single down arrow key stroke.

I’m not a part of the ‘tightknit’ group but I will point out that by reposting the entire spam post it is you that is giving them free advertising. Not all news servers get all posts. By reposting it you increase the chance that more people will see it. If you feel you must reply to spam then at least snip out the URL and contact number. Better yet, learn to read headers, trace IP numbers, and turn them in to their ISPs for abuse. — Jeri 265/200/120 Atkins since 11/5/01 "Whether you think you can or think you can’t, you’re right."

Response:

Look in the mirror, sweetie. Martha

As you surmised, "baloney’s" was the possessive form and it is correct. Certainly ng posts are not intended to be essays or articles, and I do not give or expect perfect spelling, grammar, or punctuation. I just couldn’t resist the temptation to take a poke at "truely" because it was such an easy word to spell, and because I believe such name calling is rude. As "determined" has posted that several posters here are "tight", I think it’s laudable that you stand up for your friend. I understand that I’ve ticked some posters off with my excess of zeal and rather direct manner of phrasing my posts. I meant to state my thoughts and beliefs on weight loss through dieting, not encourage myself or others to practice their name-calling, sarcasm, etc. My apologies to you, Martha, and best wishes. darrz

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Independent Herbalife Distributor Untested, unproven, maybe even fatal. What kind of customer support do you offer for the unlucky marines who just dropped dead using "naturally derived products" to lose a few pounds? Bring ‘em back from the dead and restore ‘em to health, do you? The crap some people do for buck$! darrz And you are no better than the low life scum spammers by reposting the entire message.    You truely are a moron, aren’t you. Read the added words to the header Jayjay. They refer to an object, namely the previous post. It would be incomplete without that object in my opinion. And when I do respond to the phony baloney’s, I choose to do so in a complete manner. Manners? Oh, there’s something you might brush up on. and I’d be more impressed if you could spell, and punctuate, simple words and sentences correctly, while you call me a moron. You truely are a moron, aren’t you. Truly, wouldn’t you? I’ll tell you right now you are barking up the wrong tree here.  Jay jay and many others here at ASD have been around for several years.  It is a given that you do NOT respond to spam, and you especially do NOT include any of original post spam (or flame) in a reply.  It is simply good usenet ettiquette.  Throwing around childish attacks and insults will have most everyone here turning their backs on you – we are a tightknit group and have all been friends for a long time. So, if you want to be part of the group, you’d better chill out.

Thanks for the good advice. Naturally I’m not nearly as keen on this ng as I was. Between "Fuckwit" and "scumbag low life" and this treasure: You truely are a moron, aren’t you.

I’m starting to understand that a few of the ng regulars are somewhat "socially challenged". Whom have I childishly attacked? OK, other than responding AFTER bright bulb, "truely", above. I understand though. I come here all excited because here’s a ng for dieting just when I start my diet. Great stuff! But I post too much, and I can be direct and sometimes let a little too much directness post up. That part I’ll certainly mellow out. You may have an etiquette of no responses to spam, etc., all well and good. But in my town, we lost three perfectly healthy marines from these non-prescription diet aids in the last year. Just maybe one of their wives or friends would have seen a cautionary post such as mine, and said "hey, you maybe shouldn’t take that stuff". Just maybe if we did that regularly, the spammers wouldn’t even post to this ng, because they got such negative publicity as a result. Your etiquette gives the spammers unchallenged free advertising. My etiquette takes that away, and might even save a life, down the road. I don’t usually read spam in a ng, but if I read one, and it’s hazardous – yes, I will respond negatively. Three young healthy lives, snuffed out in just my town, in ONE year, is just too important to overlook. I’m saddened that you don’t feel that lives are more important than an etiquette that saves you a single down arrow key stroke. darrz

Response:

www.iamaspammer.co.uk

<spam snipped Die spammer!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bring ‘em back from the dead and restore ‘em to health, do you? The crap some people do for buck$! darrz And you are no better than the low life scum spammers by reposting the entire message.    You truely are a moron, aren’t you. Read the added words to the header Jayjay. They refer to an object, namely the previous post. It would be incomplete without that object in my opinion. And when I do respond to the phony ***baloney’s***, I choose to do so in a complete manner. Manners? Oh, there’s something you might brush up on. and I’d be more impressed if you could spell, and punctuate, simple words and sentences correctly, while you call me a moron.

You should yourself, darrz. Note the word you yourself wrote above "baloney’s". If you are referring to the plural of baloney, which would be baloney, (the word baloney is in itself both singular and plural) then you did NOT punctuate it properly. I hate it when people use the possesive form of a noun as a plural!!!!!! If you are saying it is baloney’s fault, baloney’s bike, baloney’s house, then you would be correct. Learn to punctuate accurately yourself before you criticize others. Sheesh. There is NO ‘ in the plural form!! God, where did you go to school??? Why do so many people make this mistake? You truely are a moron, aren’t you. Truly, wouldn’t you? darrz

Look in the mirror, sweetie. Martha

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Independent Herbalife Distributor Untested, unproven, maybe even fatal. What kind of customer support do you offer for the unlucky marines who just dropped dead using "naturally derived products" to lose a few pounds? Bring ‘em back from the dead and restore ‘em to health, do you? The crap some people do for buck$! darrz And you are no better than the low life scum spammers by reposting the entire message.    You truely are a moron, aren’t you. Read the added words to the header Jayjay. They refer to an object, namely the previous post. It would be incomplete without that object in my opinion. And when I do respond to the phony baloney’s, I choose to do so in a complete manner. Manners? Oh, there’s something you might brush up on. and I’d be more impressed if you could spell, and punctuate, simple words and sentences correctly, while you call me a moron. You truely are a moron, aren’t you. Truly, wouldn’t you?

I’ll tell you right now you are barking up the wrong tree here.  Jay jay and many others here at ASD have been around for several years.  It is a given that you do NOT respond to spam, and you especially do NOT include any of original post spam (or flame) in a reply.  It is simply good usenet ettiquette.  Throwing around childish attacks and insults will have most everyone here turning their backs on you – we are a tightknit group and have all been friends for a long time. So, if you want to be part of the group, you’d better chill out.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Independent Herbalife Distributor Untested, unproven, maybe even fatal. What kind of customer support do you offer for the unlucky marines who just dropped dead using "naturally derived products" to lose a few pounds? Bring ‘em back from the dead and restore ‘em to health, do you? The crap some people do for buck$! darrz And you are no better than the low life scum spammers by reposting the entire message.    You truely are a moron, aren’t you.

That was darling of you JayBird.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Independent Herbalife Distributor Untested, unproven, maybe even fatal. What kind of customer support do you offer for the unlucky marines who just dropped dead using "naturally derived products" to lose a few pounds? Bring ‘em back from the dead and restore ‘em to health, do you? The crap some people do for buck$! darrz And you are no better than the low life scum spammers by reposting the entire message.    You truely are a moron, aren’t you.

Read the added words to the header Jayjay. They refer to an object, namely the previous post. It would be incomplete without that object in my opinion. And when I do respond to the phony baloney’s, I choose to do so in a complete manner. Manners? Oh, there’s something you might brush up on. and I’d be more impressed if you could spell, and punctuate, simple words and sentences correctly, while you call me a moron. You truely are a moron, aren’t you.

Truly, wouldn’t you? darrz Main Entry: tru

Question:

There is much talk these days regarding negative calorie foods. One wonders, how is it possible? Actually no food can be without any calorie. Negative calorie foods are those foods that require more calories to digest than their actual calorie content. Some of these foods are cabbage, broccoli, celery, etc. Others are from grains category. If you look at the list of negative calorie foods given in http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/negative-calorie-foods.com  you will see that they are vegetables and fruits. Notice that vegetables and fruits have more carbohydrates and fibers than fats. It is very easy to store dietary fat into body fat, but carbohydrates are much difficult to be converted into body fat. If you eat 100 gram of carbohydrates in a food, about 25 gram goes in just breaking and converting into fat molecules. Moreover, some of these natural plant foods have metabolism boosting effects. If we combine all these fact, we can understand their function as negative calorie foods. The advantage of these so called negative foods is that they can be incorporated into a perfect balanced diet (http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/weightloss) as per the food pyramid. This will definitely result in weight loss and a slim and fit body.

Response:

The only people talking about it hope that nobody realizes they are fools.  There are NO negative calorie foods. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is much talk these days regarding negative calorie foods. One wonders, how is it possible? Actually no food can be without any calorie. Negative calorie foods are those foods that require more calories to digest than their actual calorie content. Some of these foods are cabbage, broccoli, celery, etc. Others are from grains category. If you look at the list of negative calorie foods given in http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/negative-calorie-foods.com  you will see that they are vegetables and fruits. Notice that vegetables and fruits have more carbohydrates and fibers than fats. It is very easy to store dietary fat into body fat, but carbohydrates are much difficult to be converted into body fat. If you eat 100 gram of carbohydrates in a food, about 25 gram goes in just breaking and converting into fat molecules. Moreover, some of these natural plant foods have metabolism boosting effects. If we combine all these fact, we can understand their function as negative calorie foods. The advantage of these so called negative foods is that they can be incorporated into a perfect balanced diet (http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/weightloss) as per the food pyramid. This will definitely result in weight loss and a slim and fit body.

Response:

Negative calorie foods are those foods that require more calories to digest than their actual calorie content. Some of these foods are cabbage, broccoli, celery, etc. Others are from grains category.

This is debatable.  It’s extremely difficult to measure the calorie content of food with complete accuracy, and I don’t know of any way to measure the number of calories required to digest it accurate. Normally the major nutrient components of a food are identified and the energy requirement for their digestion is estimated.  It is fairly constant among foods, depending on their composition.  That is, sugars, starches, fats, and proteins generally require fairly constant amounts of energy to digest, no matter what their source–but the exact amounts required for a given food cannot be readily measured, whence the dubious character of the claim above. The foods you mention contain a lot of fiber.  Most fiber is indigestible, so it necessarily requires more energy to digest than it yields for use. However, these energy requirements are very small–so small that their utility in producing weight loss is negligeable.  That is, you cannot eat enough celery to produce any measurable weight loss solely through the caloric deficit generated by the digestion of the celery. A _far_ easier way to burn calories is to exercise.  Any exercise will do, and all forms of exercise will burn vastly more calories than one can burn from mere digestion. Finally, the best way to create a calorie deficit is to eat less.  It’s easier to create a 300 kcal deficit by eating 300 kcal less than it is to create the same deficit through exercise (usually). If you look at the list of negative calorie foods given in

http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/negative-calorie-foods.html you will see that they are vegetables and fruits.

The page makes a number of unsupported claims. These two paragraphs are particularly questionable: "All foods have a nutrient (carbohydrate, fat, protein), caloric (calories) and vitamin & mineral content. Vitamins stimulate living tissues to produce enzymes that breakdown the caloric nutrients of that foods. "The negative calorie foods contain sufficient vitamins & minerals that produce enzymes in quantities sufficient to break down not only its own calories, but additional calories present in digestion as well. This is the secret of The Negative Calorie Foods." The second and third statements are unsupported by any sources I’ve encountered.  If only it were that simple! Notice that vegetables and fruits have more carbohydrates and fibers than fats. It is very easy to store dietary fat into body fat, but carbohydrates are much difficult to be converted into body fat.

Only total calories matter.  The usual figure of 7 kcal per gram of fat is already adjusted to take into account the net caloric value of fat after the expense of all conversions (fat actually contains about 9 kcal per gram, but 2 kcal are required for the conversion processes). The same adjustments are made for the caloric values of other nutrients. Moreover, some of these natural plant foods have metabolism boosting effects.

No GRAS food produces durable or significant changes in metabolism. The advantage of these so called negative foods is that they can be incorporated into a perfect balanced diet (http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/weightloss) as per the food pyramid.  This will definitely result in weight loss and a slim and fit body.

Only total calories will determine long term weight gain or loss, irrespective of whether or not a diet is perfectly balanced.

Response:

Hello, The only people talking about it hope that nobody realizes they are fools.  There are NO negative calorie foods. What about vomit?

I don’t think that’d sell real well at Krogers.  I could be wrong though. *Somebody* is buying the cans of pork brains in gravy….. Carmen

Response:

The only people talking about it hope that nobody realizes they are fools.  There are NO negative calorie foods.

What about vomit?

Response:

Hi, I’m very sceptical of this theory of "Negative calorie foods". How many calories does it take to digest a head of broccoli? I’d be surprised if it was a measurable amount. Anyone have any data? (ie. independent, non- biased data?) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -There is much talk these days regarding negative calorie foods. One wonders, how is it possible? Actually no food can be without any calorie. Negative calorie foods are those foods that require more calories to digest than their actual calorie content. Some of these foods are cabbage, broccoli, celery, etc. Others are from grains category. If you look at the list of negative calorie foods given in http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/negative-calorie-foods.com you will see that they are vegetables and fruits. Notice that vegetables and fruits have more carbohydrates and fibers than fats. It is very easy to store dietary fat into body fat, but carbohydrates are much difficult to be converted into body fat. If you eat 100 gram of carbohydrates in a food, about 25 gram goes in just breaking and converting into fat molecules. Moreover, some of these natural plant foods have metabolism boosting effects. If we combine all these fact, we can understand their function as negative calorie foods. The advantage of these so called negative foods is that they can be incorporated into a perfect balanced diet (http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/weightloss) as per the food pyramid. This will definitely result in weight loss and a slim and fit body.

– Anna Hayward, Alien Visitor Email me at: alienvisitor AT ratbag DOT demon DOT co DOT uk Anna’s Pregnancy, Parenting and Autism page: http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/

Response:

No calories, but I’ve heard the body may use some to heat up cold water …

Here again, these are nickels and dimes, in a domain that deals normally in gold ingots.

Response:

The only ‘consumable’ that can be thought of as negative-calorie is water!! No calories, but I’ve heard the body may use some to heat up cold water – and of course the constant trips to the toilet help with burning calories! Just a thought… Laura

Response:

What about vomit?

Most people don’t eat vomit.  Furthermore, it’s mostly water, and vomiting depletes electrolytes much more than it reduces calories (in most cases–obviously vomiting the contents of a full stomach does reduce absorbed calories significantly).

Response:

The only people talking about it hope that nobody realizes they are fools. There are NO negative calorie foods.

The premise that some foods may require more energy to digest than they yield is certainly valid in very limited circumstances, but the notion that eating them is a practical way to burn extra calories, or that any food contains any combination of "vitamins and minerals" that can "burn fat," is unsupported and extremely dubious.

Response:

Always.  Anything that weren’t mostly water would be quite difficult to regurgitate. You obviously have never had children.

so, you do you eat children and regurgitate them often?

Response:

What about vomit? Most people don’t eat vomit.

How do you think it became vomit in the first place? Furthermore, it’s mostly water,

Not necessarily.

Response:

No calories, but I’ve heard the body may use some to heat up cold water … Here again, these are nickels and dimes, in a domain that deals normally in gold ingots.

Sorry, I was being sarcastic towards a stupid original post!  ;o)   (forgot my smiley before…) Still, I do get quite a bit of exercise going up and down stairs to the toilet/bathroom!! I go up stairs two at a time (like the crazy ideas from another recent post) and my backside is noticing the difference ;o) Whatever works I suppose… Laura

Response:

Always.  Anything that weren’t mostly water would be quite difficult to regurgitate.

You obviously have never had children.

Response:

How do you think it became vomit in the first place?

It was ejected from the stomach. Not necessarily.

Always.  Anything that weren’t mostly water would be quite difficult to regurgitate.

Response:

Oh, come on–mangoes? I LOVE ‘em but i doubt that they’re negative calorie! dave

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -There is much talk these days regarding negative calorie foods. One wonders, how is it possible? Actually no food can be without any calorie. Negative calorie foods are those foods that require more calories to digest than their actual calorie content. Some of these foods are cabbage, broccoli, celery, etc. Others are from grains category. If you look at the list of negative calorie foods given in http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/negative-calorie-foods.com you will see that they are vegetables and fruits. Notice that vegetables and fruits have more carbohydrates and fibers than fats. It is very easy to store dietary fat into body fat, but carbohydrates are much difficult to be converted into body fat. If you eat 100 gram of carbohydrates in a food, about 25 gram goes in just breaking and converting into fat molecules. Moreover, some of these natural plant foods have metabolism boosting effects. If we combine all these fact, we can understand their function as negative calorie foods. The advantage of these so called negative foods is that they can be incorporated into a perfect balanced diet (http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/weightloss) as per the food pyramid. This will definitely result in weight loss and a slim and fit body.

Utter nonsense! It is actually more difficult to store dietary fat as body fat than it is to store carbs as fat. The reason is that dietary fat must first be broken down into the components that the body can actually store – sugar. Even if you were a cannibal and ate someone’s body fat, directly – it wouldn’t matter. Your body would still have to laboriously break down the eaten fat and convert it to sugar, then, it could store some as body fat, but there is NO WAY the body can take dietary fat and directly convert it to body fat. And naturally, the breakdown order for the body is: 1) Simple sugars 2) Complex sugars (carbs) 3) Fats 4) Protein 5) Fibers which are almost (but not quite) totally undigestible. So simple sugars become fat easiest – not dietary fats. Also, there is NO diet that will result in a fit body. Fitness comes from exercise, not your diet. The reason people who eat lots of fat, get fat is because fat is crammed full of calories – like a hand grenade of calories. Per pound, fat has many times the calories of an equal amount of protein or carbs. While low calorie foods are a help to dieting, the whole concept of "negative calorie foods" is a half-truth leaning on a whole crutch. A dieter doesn’t need it, and shouldn’t rely on it, period. Walking 30 to 45 minutes a day, and sensibly restricting calories (especially empty calories with few nutrients), will allow a dieter to lose all the SAFE weight they can handle: 2 to 2.5 lbs per week. Dieter’s should NOT try to lose more that this, per week. You don’t need pills, herbs, special drinks, special foods, none of it! Save your money, and maybe your life, too! Nothing wrong with an occasional "meal" of ensure or slim-fast, etc., but be aware: you will feel very hungry before your next meal, because they have such a small bulk, and they can be high in simple sugars. darrz

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is much talk these days regarding negative calorie foods. One wonders, how is it possible? Actually no food can be without any calorie. Negative calorie foods are those foods that require more calories to digest than their actual calorie content. Some of these foods are cabbage, broccoli, celery, etc. Others are from grains category. If you look at the list of negative calorie foods given in http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/negative-calorie-foods.com you will see that they are vegetables and fruits. Notice that vegetables and fruits have more carbohydrates and fibers than fats. It is very easy to store dietary fat into body fat, but carbohydrates are much difficult to be converted into body fat. If you eat 100 gram of carbohydrates in a food, about 25 gram goes in just breaking and converting into fat molecules. Moreover, some of these natural plant foods have metabolism boosting effects. If we combine all these fact, we can understand their function as negative calorie foods. The advantage of these so called negative foods is that they can be incorporated into a perfect balanced diet (http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/weightloss) as per the food pyramid. This will definitely result in weight loss and a slim and fit body. Utter nonsense! It is actually more difficult to store dietary fat as body fat than it is to store carbs as fat. The reason is that dietary fat must first be broken down into the components that the body can actually store – sugar. Even if you were a cannibal and ate someone’s body fat, directly – it wouldn’t matter. Your body would still have to laboriously break down the eaten fat and convert it to sugar, then, it could store some as body fat, but there is NO WAY the body can take dietary fat and directly convert it to body fat. And naturally, the breakdown order for the body is: 1) Simple sugars 2) Complex sugars (carbs) 3) Fats 4) Protein 5) Fibers which are almost (but not quite) totally undigestible.

Actually, what I learned in nutrition in college is slightly different.  My understanding is that the breakdown of foods is according to the following: Sugars Complex Carbs Protein Fats Fiber. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So simple sugars become fat easiest – not dietary fats. Also, there is NO diet that will result in a fit body. Fitness comes from exercise, not your diet. The reason people who eat lots of fat, get fat is because fat is crammed full of calories – like a hand grenade of calories. Per pound, fat has many times the calories of an equal amount of protein or carbs. While low calorie foods are a help to dieting, the whole concept of "negative calorie foods" is a half-truth leaning on a whole crutch. A dieter doesn’t need it, and shouldn’t rely on it, period. Walking 30 to 45 minutes a day, and sensibly restricting calories (especially empty calories with few nutrients), will allow a dieter to lose all the SAFE weight they can handle: 2 to 2.5 lbs per week. Dieter’s should NOT try to lose more that this, per week.

The first few weeks of a diet, one can expect to lose more than two pounds a week if they severely restrict calories.  Fluid is lost initially, regardless of the diet.  Most experts recommend between 1.5 and 2 pounds a week as maximum weight loss.  Depending on your size, 2.5 pounds a week or even two pounds is an enormous task after the initial honeymoon period. Also, there is current research that says that weight training is a very valuable adjunct to weight loss.  Although you may not burn as many calories during a weight lifting routiine as you might during a run of the similar time, the added muscle plays an important role in ongoing fat loss.  1. Basal metabolism is raised for at least 24 hours post a weight lifting session.  2.  Muscle cells involved in the workout are more sensitive to insulin which can reduce appetitie in insulin resistant folks (maybe 1 in 5 of us).  3.  Human growth hormone is stimulated by weight lifting and that is powerful deterrant to fat storage.  4.   As muscles are developed, they are far more metabolically active than fat which means that you will require more calories a day just to stay the same weight.  5.  Muscles look good – regardless of gender. You don’t need pills, herbs, special drinks, special foods, none of it! Save your money, and maybe your life, too!

I am with you here except for a few exceptions where people may need medical intervention in the event of extreme obesity. Nothing wrong with an occasional "meal" of ensure or slim-fast, etc., but be aware: you will feel very hungry before your next meal, because they have such a small bulk, and they can be high in simple sugars.

Simple sugars are a huge problem for many of us.  I am cursed by a tendency to overeat for the rest of the day if I have even a little piece of candy. Other people, blessed as they are, can afford to eat some sugars and not have a profound reaction to them. j (155/143/125) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – darrz

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is much talk these days regarding negative calorie foods. One wonders, how is it possible? Actually no food can be without any calorie. Negative calorie foods are those foods that require more calories to digest than their actual calorie content. Some of these foods are cabbage, broccoli, celery, etc. Others are from grains category. If you look at the list of negative calorie foods given in http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/negative-calorie-foods.com you will see that they are vegetables and fruits. Notice that vegetables and fruits have more carbohydrates and fibers than fats. It is very easy to store dietary fat into body fat, but carbohydrates are much difficult to be converted into body fat. If you eat 100 gram of carbohydrates in a food, about 25 gram goes in just breaking and converting into fat molecules. Moreover, some of these natural plant foods have metabolism boosting effects. If we combine all these fact, we can understand their function as negative calorie foods. The advantage of these so called negative foods is that they can be incorporated into a perfect balanced diet (http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/weightloss) as per the food pyramid. This will definitely result in weight loss and a slim and fit body. Utter nonsense! It is actually more difficult to store dietary fat as body fat than it is to store carbs as fat. The reason is that dietary fat must first be broken down into the components that the body can actually store – sugar. Even if you were a cannibal and ate someone’s body fat, directly – it wouldn’t matter. Your body would still have to laboriously break down the eaten fat and convert it to sugar, then, it could store some as body fat, but there is NO WAY the body can take dietary fat and directly convert it to body fat. And naturally, the breakdown order for the body is: 1) Simple sugars 2) Complex sugars (carbs) 3) Fats 4) Protein 5) Fibers which are almost (but not quite) totally undigestible. So simple sugars become fat easiest – not dietary fats. Also, there is NO diet that will result in a fit body. Fitness comes from exercise, not your diet. The reason people who eat lots of fat, get fat is because fat is crammed full of calories – like a hand grenade of calories. Per pound, fat has many times the calories of an equal amount of protein or carbs. While low calorie foods are a help to dieting, the whole concept of "negative calorie foods" is a half-truth leaning on a whole crutch. A dieter doesn’t need it, and shouldn’t rely on it, period. Walking 30 to 45 minutes a day, and sensibly restricting calories (especially empty calories with few nutrients), will allow a dieter to lose all the SAFE weight they can handle: 2 to 2.5 lbs per week. Dieter’s should NOT try to lose more that this, per week. You don’t need pills, herbs, special drinks, special foods, none of it! Save your money, and maybe your life, too! Nothing wrong with an occasional "meal" of ensure or slim-fast, etc., but be aware: you will feel very hungry before your next meal, because they have such a small bulk, and they can be high in simple sugars. darrz

Since this is cross posted everywhere already, I might as well cross post it to misc.fitness.weights, where we can have some fun with this person. He/She has flooded ASD with some good IOM stuff.  This person gives some good advice, but then screws it up with some disinformation.  You get a good glimpse of it in the above excerpt. — Ted Current quote: "It can’t be like this…" http://hometown.aol.com/rhwbullhead

Response:

Also, there is current research that says that weight training is a very valuable adjunct to weight loss.  Although you may not burn as many calories during a weight lifting routiine as you might during a run of the similar time, the added muscle plays an important role in ongoing fat loss.  1. Basal metabolism is raised for at least 24 hours post a weight lifting session.  2.  Muscle cells involved in the workout are more sensitive to insulin which can reduce appetitie in insulin resistant folks (maybe 1 in 5 of us).  3.  Human growth hormone is stimulated by weight lifting and that is powerful deterrant to fat storage.  4.   As muscles are developed, they are far more metabolically active than fat which means that you will require more calories a day just to stay the same weight.

Nicely said.  5.  Muscles look good – regardless of gender.

This was researched? lol

Response:

Well, my research consisted of reviewing the covers of fashion magazines while in line at the grocery store.  I must admit that I personally was more impressed with the men on muscle magazines but it is obvious that many of the fashion models are quite toned.

It’s certainly in fashion…look at the soaps and you see upper body lifters all over the place. Although they have a way to go to be more realistic, at least we have gotten away from the waif look of the 80’s where women were considered attractive only if they resembled young boys and lived on cocaine and champagne!

And ciggies.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also, there is current research that says that weight training is a very valuable adjunct to weight loss.  Although you may not burn as many calories during a weight lifting routiine as you might during a run of the similar time, the added muscle plays an important role in ongoing fat loss.  1. Basal metabolism is raised for at least 24 hours post a weight lifting session.  2.  Muscle cells involved in the workout are more sensitive to insulin which can reduce appetitie in insulin resistant folks (maybe 1 in 5 of us).  3.  Human growth hormone is stimulated by weight lifting and that is powerful deterrant to fat storage.  4.   As muscles are developed, they are far more metabolically active than fat which means that you will require more calories a day just to stay the same weight. Nicely said.  5.  Muscles look good – regardless of gender. This was researched? lol

Well, my research consisted of reviewing the covers of fashion magazines while in line at the grocery store.  I must admit that I personally was more impressed with the men on muscle magazines but it is obvious that many of the fashion models are quite toned.  Although they have a way to go to be more realistic, at least we have gotten away from the waif look of the 80’s where women were considered attractive only if they resembled young boys and lived on cocaine and champagne! j

Response:

But I don’t expect the average dieter to add 45 minutes a day of aerobic exercise, (and at least a bit of time for the diet diary and such not), and ALSO do weight training. In my opinion, that’s a bit much.

No dieter would need to train 7 days of aerobics or 7 days of strength training. How about 30-40 minutes walking on a treadmill with 2 days a week complete body strength training? The aerobics are essential (to me), while dieting. Weight training while dieting, is not. In fact, it will cover up a lot of dieting with muscles, and the dieter may never learn their real food intake set point, or balance point.

Only if that dieter quits training and the differences would be small and easily adjustable. I’m sure a lot of it depends on how you weight train. Once you learn weight training properly, you can start bulking up (with muscle) VERY quickly.

Uh, maybe, most probably not. When I diet, I can’t be sure the diet will succeed without a lot of attention…

Then you and your diet are doomed to failure.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is much talk these days regarding negative calorie foods. One wonders, how is it possible? Actually no food can be without any calorie. Negative calorie foods are those foods that require more calories to digest than their actual calorie content. Some of these foods are cabbage, broccoli, celery, etc. Others are from grains category. If you look at the list of negative calorie foods given in http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/negative-calorie-foods.com you will see that they are vegetables and fruits. Notice that vegetables and fruits have more carbohydrates and fibers than fats. It is very easy to store dietary fat into body fat, but carbohydrates are much difficult to be converted into body fat. If you eat 100 gram of carbohydrates in a food, about 25 gram goes in just breaking and converting into fat molecules. Moreover, some of these natural plant foods have metabolism boosting effects. If we combine all these fact, we can understand their function as negative calorie foods. The advantage of these so called negative foods is that they can be incorporated into a perfect balanced diet (http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/weightloss) as per the food pyramid. This will definitely result in weight loss and a slim and fit body. Utter nonsense! It is actually more difficult to store dietary fat as body fat than it is to store carbs as fat. The reason is that dietary fat must first be broken down into the components that the body can actually store – sugar. Even if you were a cannibal and ate someone’s body fat, directly – it wouldn’t matter. Your body would still have to laboriously break down the eaten fat and convert it to sugar, then, it could store some as body fat, but there is NO WAY the body can take dietary fat and directly convert it to body fat. And naturally, the breakdown order for the body is: 1) Simple sugars 2) Complex sugars (carbs) 3) Fats 4) Protein 5) Fibers which are almost (but not quite) totally undigestible. Actually, what I learned in nutrition in college is slightly different.  My understanding is that the breakdown of foods is according to the following: Sugars Complex Carbs Protein Fats Fiber.

Think of what happens when you diet, successfully. You always lose some protein (muscle) mass, but most of your weight loss will be from fat. This leads to my conclusion of fats before most (but not all) protein. You lose weight just the opposite of how you gain it: The first thing to be depleted is your immediate energy stores of sugars in the bloodstream. The second thing to be depleted will be your muscles energy stores of glycogen. What is glycogen? One entry found for glycogen. Main Entry: gly

Question:

Well, my research consisted of reviewing the covers of fashion magazines while in line at the grocery store.  I must admit that I personally was more impressed with the men on muscle magazines but it is obvious that many of the fashion models are quite toned.

It’s certainly in fashion…look at the soaps and you see upper body lifters all over the place. Although they have a way to go to be more realistic, at least we have gotten away from the waif look of the 80’s where women were considered attractive only if they resembled young boys and lived on cocaine and champagne!

And ciggies.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is much talk these days regarding negative calorie foods. One wonders, how is it possible? Actually no food can be without any calorie. Negative calorie foods are those foods that require more calories to digest than their actual calorie content. Some of these foods are cabbage, broccoli, celery, etc. Others are from grains category. If you look at the list of negative calorie foods given in http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/negative-calorie-foods.com you will see that they are vegetables and fruits. Notice that vegetables and fruits have more carbohydrates and fibers than fats. It is very easy to store dietary fat into body fat, but carbohydrates are much difficult to be converted into body fat. If you eat 100 gram of carbohydrates in a food, about 25 gram goes in just breaking and converting into fat molecules. Moreover, some of these natural plant foods have metabolism boosting effects. If we combine all these fact, we can understand their function as negative calorie foods. The advantage of these so called negative foods is that they can be incorporated into a perfect balanced diet (http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/weightloss) as per the food pyramid. This will definitely result in weight loss and a slim and fit body. Utter nonsense! It is actually more difficult to store dietary fat as body fat than it is to store carbs as fat. The reason is that dietary fat must first be broken down into the components that the body can actually store – sugar. Even if you were a cannibal and ate someone’s body fat, directly – it wouldn’t matter. Your body would still have to laboriously break down the eaten fat and convert it to sugar, then, it could store some as body fat, but there is NO WAY the body can take dietary fat and directly convert it to body fat. And naturally, the breakdown order for the body is: 1) Simple sugars 2) Complex sugars (carbs) 3) Fats 4) Protein 5) Fibers which are almost (but not quite) totally undigestible. Actually, what I learned in nutrition in college is slightly different.  My understanding is that the breakdown of foods is according to the following: Sugars Complex Carbs Protein Fats Fiber.

Think of what happens when you diet, successfully. You always lose some protein (muscle) mass, but most of your weight loss will be from fat. This leads to my conclusion of fats before most (but not all) protein. You lose weight just the opposite of how you gain it: The first thing to be depleted is your immediate energy stores of sugars in the bloodstream. The second thing to be depleted will be your muscles energy stores of glycogen. What is glycogen? One entry found for glycogen. Main Entry: gly

Question:

And what was I doing from 1 January to 13 January whilst AOL was screwing its usenet users over? Trying to bring a second cat into the household, as a companion to Pearly when I am out of the house, which is often. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Conway Cat Bengal,Tabby – Brown Mix Size: Medium Age: Senior Sex: Male I.D: Notes: Hey there! My name is Conway and I am a little Bengal mix kitty. I am a total love dove, and you wouldn’t even know I was 18 years old, by how playful I am. Much Love found me at the Carson pound where I was destined to be put to sleep! I was a "stud" for a breeder for many years and when he could no longer use me, he just sent me off to the pound! Imagine that! Now, I’m in a warm foster home, but if you liked to invite me over to your place to live out my golden years, please call (310) 636-9115 This pet is: up to date with routine shots, already house trained, altered @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ And after reading that advertisement, I made contact with "Much Love Animal Rescue" and had a few long talks with Kim Finger, the lady fostering Conway. We made an appointment to meet at their weekly event at the PETCO in Santa Monica, held every Saturday starting at 10 AM. I showed up, filled out the adoption form, answered a few questions, and was approved on the spot. I drove home and awaited the arrival of Kim, a friend, and Conway. They inspected the apartment thoroughly, checking out the window screens to make sure Conway couldn’t slip out that way. They approved of my arrangements for the cats, and even admired Pearly. O yes, Pearly. Pearly had been very restless all morning, for she had somehow managed to sense that a major change was about to happen. When I left the apartment at 10 AM, she was asleep in the crow’s nest of cat tree #1, rather then sunning herself on cat tree #2, which she usually does in the mornings. I had cleaned out, scrubbed, washed, rinsed, and dried her two litter boxes. I had put in new litter. The third litter box was ready, but not filled with litter. I wanted to wait until Conway arrived, so as to be able to introduce him to fresh litter not used by Pearly. We had decided to keep Conway locked up in my bedroom for 24 hours, so Pearly could smell him and hear him, but not interact with him. We brought Conway (in his carrier) into my bedroom, shut the door, and coaxed him out. The first thing I did was to gently pick him up and place him in the litter box, then draw his paws over the sand. After that, he stepped out to explore my bedroom. I had put out a food dish, a water dish, a scratching post, and some toys. I was instructed to keep Conway in my bedroom for 24 hours, with the door closed, so that the two cats could smell and hear each other, but not interact. They left, and I settled down for The Long Wait. Conway explored the room, and when I left for AA at 7 PM he was curled up in the heated sleeping cup. This heating cup was another item I had bought from Drs. Foster and Smith, and I had placed it on my bed for Pearly’s use. Pearly rejected it, so the sleeping cup did not have her scent on it when Conway discovered it. He promptly curled up in the cup to start napping. Pearly was sulking in the living room. I cannot think of a better word to describe her attitude. I spent as much time with her as I could, petting her and playing with Da Bird, but she was still sulking when I left for AA, still sulking when I got back, and was still sulking this morning when I got up. This morning I scooped out the litter boxes. I was informed that if the situation was too stressful, one or both cats might start avoiding the boxes. But no, both Pearly and Conway behaved themselves during the night. Conway had been eating his food and drinking his water. So had Pearly. So far, so good. After breakfast Pearly went to the east window to sun herself on cat tree #2. Conway was still in his sleeping cup, although awake when I walk in the bedroom. I went out at 9 AM to my usual VFU breakfast, followed at 11 AM by my usual UU fellowship, and home by 1:30 PM to begin the introduction. After NINE days, Pearly and Conway are still not on talking terms. When I let Conway out of the bedroom Sunday afternoon, Pearly promptly retreated up cat tree #1 to the crow’s nest, and more or less sulked there the rest of the day while Conway explored. Conway did climb up to the top of tree #1, look in the crow’s nest, and was hissed. I’ve heard the phrase "hissy fit" but this is the first example I actually saw. Conway backed off. Monday I was in and out of the house, and by and large Conway stayed at the east end of the apartment, on cat tree #2 or the green heating pad on the sofa. Pearly stayed at the west end, in the crow’s nest or on her heating pad on the chair by the computer. I could not see if Pearly was eating or drinking or eliminating. Conway certainly was, and seems to have settled in fast as far as food, water, and litter box use goes. I was worried that Pearly may be "holding it in" and staying away from the three litter boxes because Conway is using them.   Yet Pearly’s former house had seven cats sharing one litter box. So I am not really sure what is going on. Tuesday morning, before I went to work, Pearly demanded her water from the faucet and was eating the food. As I expected, Pearly was eating from the second dish of food I had set out for Conway, and Conway preferred to eat from the first dish set out for Pearly. Yet both dishes have the same food, Hills Prescription Diet Feline K/D Dry. When I got back from work at 4 PM, there was no real change in the situation. I saw no signs of physical violence between the two. Pearly did GLARE at Conway at times, Conway was more cool about it all.  And so it went all week. On Wednesday Conway left a massive hair ball on one of the heating pads. I strated feeding him small amounts of Petromalt daily, but yesterday (Sunday 12 January) he left another hairball. So more petromalt for him. More seriously, Pearly broke training Sunday night and left a #2 on the carpet at the base of cat tree #1. Sigh

Question:

Try searching the web for glycemic index, or try a boot store. Barnes and Noble carries a book with a list.

Thanx. Betty.

Response:

http://www.mendosa.com/gi.htm.

Thank you. Betty.

Response:

No pineapple

Totally out of curiosity?  How come no pineapple? —               John F Davis in Delightful Detroit     Remove the obvious "no.spam." if replying via E-mail    Diabetic?  Visit http://go.compuserve.com/diabetesforum     No membership needed to read, AOL-IM members can post

Response:

No pineapple Totally out of curiosity?  How come no pineapple?

I’m not the one who said it, but probably becuase it’s high in simple sugars.  Might be OK for some, you never can tell without checking on yourself. Speaking only for myself, Joe Durusau

Response:

Totally out of curiosity?  How come no pineapple?

I was told it had a high GI. Betty.

Response:

John as Tess said the glycemic index of pineapple and watermelon is one of the highest around. For diabetics such fruit is spike material just like sugar saturated cordial. Note the white bread index is 100 , good ol watermelon is higher!!!. It is widely proven that High GI foods create swings in BSI because of the glucose levels. The low Gi food groups  produce gradual rises in BSI and have many health benefits accordingly. This includes decreasing  the amount of insulin "dumped" which increases insulin sensitivity at the cellular level. Which simply means insulin becomes more effective in your body. Just like gently increasing the throttle in a car instead of jerking it. For fat loss one of the main problems with T2’s the hardest part of dieting is the hunger. Low GI foods are natural appetite suppressants. (which is one reason why the Atkins folk stick better to his diet than low fat. because they don’t get hungry!~) If you can help control insulin by eating low GI food it ensures fat is burned and you have some drive left at the end of the day (another problem with low fat diets – you feel stuffed by the end of the day or an hour after breakfast!) Benefits of Low A glycemic Foods: 1. do not stimulate fat storage, 2. reduce appetite, 3. enhance sports performance, 4. improve energy levels while reducing sugar-related energy and/or mood swings, 5. improve muscle to fat ratio, 6. enhance mental alertness, 7. allow you to eat more calories, and, 8. may help lower blood lipids. 9. Low-glycemic foods  have been proven to reduce the incidence of Type II diabetes and to help control Type I and II diabetes, hypoglycemia and hypertension. (UNSW) This is t he fruit you should eat in preference from low to high! So Tess is on Target!!!! Note all the super sweet fruit is not so good for you!!! Also never drink juice especially if its concentrated. Recently someone posted a non sugar apple pie recipe here. It had 2 cups of concentrated apple juice. unfortunately it was not mentioned that it had 2lbs of sugar per pint of juice!!!!! Cherries  32   Grapefruit  36   Apple 38   Apple juice, unsweetened 40   Apricots, dried 44   Pear, fresh 53   Apple 54   Plum 55   Apple juice 58   Peach, fresh 60   Orange  53   Pear, canned 63   Grapes  66   Pineapple juice 66   Peach, canned 67   Grapefruit juice 69   Orange juice 74   Kiwi 75   Banana 77   Fruit cocktail 79   Mango 80   Apricots, fresh 82   Raisins 91   Apricots, canned syrup 91   Pineapple 94   Rockmelon (muskmelon, canteloupe) 93   Watermelon 103 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No pineapple Totally out of curiosity?  How come no pineapple? —               John F Davis in Delightful Detroit     Remove the obvious "no.spam." if replying via E-mail    Diabetic?  Visit http://go.compuserve.com/diabetesforum     No membership needed to read, AOL-IM members can post

Response:

says… I’m not the one who said it, but probably becuase it’s high in simple sugars.  Might be OK for some, you never can tell without checking on yourself.

Ok, thanks,  Kind of wondered about it is all —               John F Davis in Delightful Detroit     Remove the obvious "no.spam." if replying via E-mail    Diabetic?  Visit http://go.compuserve.com/diabetesforum     No membership needed to read, AOL-IM members can post

Response:

Should I just shut the hell up and be happy with my good fortune?

version of the Serenity prayer here: Accept the things you cannot change, Have the courage to change the things you can, and the wisdom to know the difference. BL

Response:

… Are the long term effects of consuming as many medications as I do likely to form a problem of their own (such as kidney and liver damage and who knows what else)? I worry about this in light of the fact that I have 40 years to go before I can reach a normal life span, yet my drug diet is already comparable to your average senior citizen.

I don’t know, and I don’t think anyone else does either. However, it does seem like a pretty severe regimen. Tell me, what does your exercise plan look like? Should I just shut the hell up and be happy with my good fortune?

Yes and no. Yes, you’re lucky that your doctor is on the ball and is treating your condition aggressively. This is the best way to avoid complications. No, you shouldn’t simply take a raft of medications without looking into the alternatives. By this I don’t mean "alternative medicines." Diet and exercise can bring about dramatic improvements in diabetic control, blood pressure and cholestorol. However, if you are already exercising and your diet is good, then instead of worrying about the consequences of taking all those meds, you should have a think about the consequences of NOT taking them. Even before I was diagnosed, I knew of two people who chose to ignore their diabetes. Both required lower limb amputations and died of heart attacks in their 50s. Cheers, John Carney.

Response:

Excuse me if im wrong, your drugs indicate you may be severely overweight? Yet in your post you do not mention diet and exercise? T2 diabetes is a triangle. Diet , Exercise and Medication. If you don’t change your diet to limit carbs and you don’t exercise you need more and more medication. What should be happening is  that you should be walking an hour a day and replacing high GI food with low GI food. Medication is the last resort except for most people it is the first choice! On top of your diabetes you have other conditions that need exercise! One hour walking each day !!!! If you cant walk because of your legs you need to swim until you can walk or do both. You should remove flour and sugar and root veges from your diet replacing them with other vegetables and changing fruit types. eg pineapple and bananas get changed to cherries and peaches. Buy a book on food GI and eat low GI food. I am sorry this is harsh, its exactly what I told myself looking in the mirror after many years of relying on medication and dieticians. Diabetes is a personal disease – only you can manage it. Ask yourself which came first? the hypertension hyperlipidemia or the diabetes?  All your illnesses are continuing alarm bells that your body need better food and exercise…… Your last question – no don’t shut up ever ….. ask ask ask – Do not rely on any one source of information, Retake control of your body!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Background – I’m a 28 year old with hypertension, hyperlipidemia, and ’statistically borderline’ diabetes. I say this not to downplay the seriousness (or permanency) of the condition, but to distinguish the fact that my bg numbers (at their apex prior to treatment) were on the edge between IGT and diabetes and never way out of control. In fact, my peak hba1c was 5.1%, which would indicate the problem was caught in its infancy and that I didn’t endure much in the way of sustained spikes. When my high blood pressure and high cholesterol were diagnosed, my bg numbers were normal. A year into the successful treatment of the blood pressure and cholesterol and . . . wham! blood glucose numbers started saying goodbye to normal, and my doctor intervened further. My current drug regimen looks like this – 2000 mg Metformin daily (blood sugar) 20 mg Lisinopril daily (blood pressure) 5 mg Bisoprolol daily (blood pressure) 20 mg Lovastatin daily (cholesterol) 20 mg Fluoxetine daily (depression) 81 mg aspirin (cardiovascular risk factors) I feel very fortunate that my condition was discovered within 12 months of its detectability in a blood test, and that this list of drugs presently allows me to manage the conditions. I am aware that the utilization of multiple drugs (in treatment of the typical diabetic and his horde of conditions) is commonplace. Let’s arrive at my question – pretend that the rest of my life is nearly perfect. No additional conditions come up. No cancer. No MS. No Parkinson’s. Nothing. Furthermore, my current diabetes/blood pressure/cholesterol treatment plan always works perfectly and never requires modification (keep in mind I do not actually consider this a possibility). Are the long term effects of consuming as many medications as I do likely to form a problem of their own (such as kidney and liver damage and who knows what else)? I worry about this in light of the fact that I have 40 years to go before I can reach a normal life span, yet my drug diet is already comparable to your average senior citizen. Should I just shut the hell up and be happy with my good fortune?

Response:

What should be happening is  that you should be walking an hour a day and replacing high GI food with low GI food.

The food I am doing. No white flour, rice or potatoes. No pineapple. Using TOPS 1220 cal. food program. Weigh in is Thursday. There is no way I can walk an hour a day at one time. Maybe broken up into segments. Along with the new diagnosis of diabetes, I have fibromyalgia. I have a TotalGym. Would that be the right type of exercise? Betty.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – www.mendosa.com What should be happening is  that you should be walking an hour a day and replacing high GI food with low GI food. Where can I find a list or book about GI of foods? This is all totally new to me as of last week. Doc said he is not going to treat at this time. I am to get the weight off and exercise. One test he did was 6.6. Said anything below 7 was acceptable. Any help appreciated. Betty.

Try searching the web for glycemic index, or try a boot store. Barnes and Noble carries a book with a list. Speaking only for myself, Joe Durusau

Response:

http://www.mendosa.com/gi.htm. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Where can I find a list or book about GI of foods? This is all totally new to me as of last week. Doc said he is not going to treat at this time. I am to get the weight off and exercise. One test he did was 6.6. Said anything below 7 was acceptable. Any help appreciated. Betty.

Response:

What should be happening is  that you should be walking an hour a day and replacing high GI food with low GI food.

Where can I find a list or book about GI of foods? This is all totally new to me as of last week. Doc said he is not going to treat at this time. I am to get the weight off and exercise. One test he did was 6.6. Said anything below 7 was acceptable. Any help appreciated. Betty.

Response:

www.mendosa.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What should be happening is  that you should be walking an hour a day and replacing high GI food with low GI food. Where can I find a list or book about GI of foods? This is all totally new to me as of last week. Doc said he is not going to treat at this time. I am to get the weight off and exercise. One test he did was 6.6. Said anything below 7 was acceptable. Any help appreciated. Betty.

Response:

Actually, I am not overweight (nor was I). In fact, I have dropped nearly 20 pounds in the past 5 months (passively) and that puts me at 5′10" and 160 pounds today. At my heaviest, I was 180 pounds. Though I didn’t mention the exercise and diet components of my current treatment plan, rest assured they are indeed in place. My exercise includes walking for 30 minutes daily. As far as diet goes – it’s an evolutionary thing. I started by simply eating less (with no regard to what I was eating, just consuming less of everything). Moving on, I then put an end to my ‘feast or famine’ policy of eating, which I am certain is bad for diabetic type conditions no matter WHAT it is that you are eating (let alone the garbage that has made up my diet for 28 years). I started eating smaller meals in regular cycles. Eventually, I started tinkering with the actual choices in my diet. I eliminated Coke and Mountain Dew entirely in favor of water. I look at this as a significant development (39g of sugar per can of soda X 6 = a lot of sugar). Recently, I have nearly eliminated bread from the picture. This evolution will go on like this until I find a decent balance between nutrition and tastiness. I’m on top of my condition so early in the game thay I expect to have the luxury of eating a ‘traditional’ healthy diet (everything in moderation) as opposed to going nuts and eating like the full-on diabetic (counting carbs and the like). Just a theory, though. I won’t be entirely crestfallen if this turns out to be fallacy. For those that like the shortened version – at no point did I, do I or will I ever believe that my laundry list of medications (no matter how effective they are now and no matter how early my condition was detected and managed) is a substitute for the diet and exercise part of the diabetic’s ‘triangle’ of successful treatment.

Response:

My question to you would be… Other than the meds, what else are you doing to ensure yourself a good long healthy life? Exercise? Food? Meds are just one leg of the health tripod. Instead of worrying, take a hike ; ) Literally. If you do ALL you can, then that’s all you can do. Jennifer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Background – I’m a 28 year old with hypertension, hyperlipidemia, and ’statistically borderline’ diabetes. I say this not to downplay the seriousness (or permanency) of the condition, but to distinguish the fact that my bg numbers (at their apex prior to treatment) were on the edge between IGT and diabetes and never way out of control. In fact, my peak hba1c was 5.1%, which would indicate the problem was caught in its infancy and that I didn’t endure much in the way of sustained spikes. When my high blood pressure and high cholesterol were diagnosed, my bg numbers were normal. A year into the successful treatment of the blood pressure and cholesterol and . . . wham! blood glucose numbers started saying goodbye to normal, and my doctor intervened further. My current drug regimen looks like this – 2000 mg Metformin daily (blood sugar) 20 mg Lisinopril daily (blood pressure) 5 mg Bisoprolol daily (blood pressure) 20 mg Lovastatin daily (cholesterol) 20 mg Fluoxetine daily (depression) 81 mg aspirin (cardiovascular risk factors) I feel very fortunate that my condition was discovered within 12 months of its detectability in a blood test, and that this list of drugs presently allows me to manage the conditions. I am aware that the utilization of multiple drugs (in treatment of the typical diabetic and his horde of conditions) is commonplace. Let’s arrive at my question – pretend that the rest of my life is nearly perfect. No additional conditions come up. No cancer. No MS. No Parkinson’s. Nothing. Furthermore, my current diabetes/blood pressure/cholesterol treatment plan always works perfectly and never requires modification (keep in mind I do not actually consider this a possibility). Are the long term effects of consuming as many medications as I do likely to form a problem of their own (such as kidney and liver damage and who knows what else)? I worry about this in light of the fact that I have 40 years to go before I can reach a normal life span, yet my drug diet is already comparable to your average senior citizen. Should I just shut the hell up and be happy with my good fortune?

Response:

Background – I’m a 28 year old with hypertension, hyperlipidemia, and ’statistically borderline’ diabetes. I say this not to downplay the seriousness (or permanency) of the condition, but to distinguish the fact that my bg numbers (at their apex prior to treatment) were on the edge between IGT and diabetes and never way out of control. In fact, my peak hba1c was 5.1%, which would indicate the problem was caught in its infancy and that I didn’t endure much in the way of sustained spikes. When my high blood pressure and high cholesterol were diagnosed, my bg numbers were normal. A year into the successful treatment of the blood pressure and cholesterol and . . . wham! blood glucose numbers started saying goodbye to normal, and my doctor intervened further. My current drug regimen looks like this – 2000 mg Metformin daily (blood sugar) 20 mg Lisinopril daily (blood pressure) 5 mg Bisoprolol daily (blood pressure) 20 mg Lovastatin daily (cholesterol) 20 mg Fluoxetine daily (depression) 81 mg aspirin (cardiovascular risk factors) I feel very fortunate that my condition was discovered within 12 months of its detectability in a blood test, and that this list of drugs presently allows me to manage the conditions. I am aware that the utilization of multiple drugs (in treatment of the typical diabetic and his horde of conditions) is commonplace. Let’s arrive at my question – pretend that the rest of my life is nearly perfect. No additional conditions come up. No cancer. No MS. No Parkinson’s. Nothing. Furthermore, my current diabetes/blood pressure/cholesterol treatment plan always works perfectly and never requires modification (keep in mind I do not actually consider this a possibility). Are the long term effects of consuming as many medications as I do likely to form a problem of their own (such as kidney and liver damage and who knows what else)? I worry about this in light of the fact that I have 40 years to go before I can reach a normal life span, yet my drug diet is already comparable to your average senior citizen. Should I just shut the hell up and be happy with my good fortune?

Response:

Question:

In a moment when I look back on what I have said I realise people have taken what I have said personally To all type one diabetics…I sympathise, you did nothing, it hit you, it is a bitch and you really don’t deserve it. To you type two’s, like me, well you probably don’t deserve it….but likely you brought it on. Type 2 diabetes, unless you are say….50 or so…is pretty much self induced So yeah, maybe i am angry. BUT I realise I can do something about it. I know i can reduce the effects….AND have….by following orders. I now know how to control not only my diabetes but also me This is where I was going with the newbie comments folks….by all means listen to those in here, they have interesting stories. But do NOT become like them You are here cos u dont know what is happening….as soon as you do…you move on I am moving on That really is all from me I am off ta taa Thanks for the unhelp…cos really that is all i got here….which is why I am leaving as I am. It took me about 3 weeks to be answered in the first place when I first asked for help sorry to any new folks I am not really a bitter twisted individual…just write like one here you’ll see……

Response:

In a moment when I look back on what I have said I realise people have taken what I have said personally

Fucking crybaby. To all type one diabetics…I sympathise, you did nothing, it hit you, it is a bitch and you really don’t deserve it. To you type two’s, like me, well you probably don’t deserve it….but likely you brought it on.

And YOU’RE going to control it? Yeah!! Type 2 diabetes, unless you are say….50 or so…is pretty much self induced So yeah, maybe i am angry. BUT I realise I can do something about it. I know i can reduce the effects….AND have….by following orders. I now know how to control not only my diabetes but also me

So why did you "get it" in the first place? Probably because you’re a fat idle twat who sat around waiting for it to get you. You’ll sit aound on your fat arse ’til it kills you too no doubt. You’ve not enough patience to deal with diabetes and you need some serious help. Guess who

Response:

Shuttup you dick, nuff said!

Now that will guarantee he will have another last word – lol

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Err would you like a dictionary? your grasp of the english language seems somewhat limited still u r a surf dude!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Shuttup you dick, nuff said! The Surfer guy In a moment when I look back on what I have said I realise people have taken what I have said personally To all type one diabetics…I sympathise, you did nothing, it hit you, it is a bitch and you really don’t deserve it. To you type two’s, like me, well you probably don’t deserve it….but likely you brought it on. Type 2 diabetes, unless you are say….50 or so…is pretty much self induced So yeah, maybe i am angry. BUT I realise I can do something about it. I know i can reduce the effects….AND have….by following orders. I now know how to control not only my diabetes but also me This is where I was going with the newbie comments folks….by all means listen to those in here, they have interesting stories. But do NOT become like them You are here cos u dont know what is happening….as soon as you do…you move on I am moving on That really is all from me I am off ta taa Thanks for the unhelp…cos really that is all i got here….which is why I am leaving as I am. It took me about 3 weeks to be answered in the first place when I first asked for help sorry to any new folks I am not really a bitter twisted individual…just write like one here you’ll see……

Response:

Err would you like a dictionary?

Don’t you just hate it when people pretend to flounce off in a huff then don’t…? — Emma                            http://altgallery.shows.it The Chocolate Monster           http://chocmonster.rules.it

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Err would you like a dictionary? Don’t you just hate it when people pretend to flounce off in a huff then don’t…?

Emma wins the "More Comebacks Than Frank Sinatra" award of the day!

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Oh please! I don’t even want to think about Treb’s underpants! ;-p — Emma                            http://altgallery.shows.it The Chocolate Monster           http://chocmonster.rules.it

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Err would you like a dictionary? Don’t you just hate it when people pretend to flounce off in a huff then don’t…? — Emma                            http://altgallery.shows.it The Chocolate Monster           http://chocmonster.rules.it

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Isn’t it funny how some peopel have such delusions of grandeur? Does Treb really think he’s right, and everyone else here is wrong, I never knew arrogance of that level really existed. Shame really Stef

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In a moment when I look back on what I have said I realise people have taken what I have said personally To all type one diabetics…I sympathise, you did nothing, it hit you, it is a bitch and you really don’t deserve it. To you type two’s, like me, well you probably don’t deserve it….but likely you brought it on. Type 2 diabetes, unless you are say….50 or so…is pretty much self induced So yeah, maybe i am angry. BUT I realise I can do something about it. I know i can reduce the effects….AND have….by following orders. I now know how to control not only my diabetes but also me This is where I was going with the newbie comments folks….by all means listen to those in here, they have interesting stories. But do NOT become like them You are here cos u dont know what is happening….as soon as you do…you move on I am moving on That really is all from me I am off ta taa Thanks for the unhelp…cos really that is all i got here….which is why I am leaving as I am. It took me about 3 weeks to be answered in the first place when I first asked for help sorry to any new folks I am not really a bitter twisted individual…just write like one here you’ll see……

Response:

Err would you like a dictionary? your grasp of the english language seems somewhat limited still u r a surf dude!

Are you still here? Fuck ME you must be a sadder bastard than I gave you credit for. Beav

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Are you still here? Fuck ME you must be a sadder bastard than I gave you credit for.

Does this guy ever fuck off?!! NUFF SED!!!! ….oh sorry, i don’t have a dictionary to hand Surfin’

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Please do ship out Treb. I can’t for the life of me think why an immature person like you wants to hang around with adults. Now why don’t you run off and play with the other children. And stop whinging for christ’s sake. Mally too much knowledge makes one too clever

In a moment when I look back on what I have said I realise people have taken what I have said personally To all type one diabetics…I sympathise, you did nothing, it hit you, it is a bitch and you really don’t deserve it. To you type two’s, like me, well you probably don’t deserve it….but likely you brought it on. Type 2 diabetes, unless you are say….50 or so…is pretty much self induced So yeah, maybe i am angry. BUT I realise I can do something about it. I know i can reduce the effects….AND have….by following orders. I now know how to control not only my diabetes but also me This is where I was going with the newbie comments folks….by all means listen to those in here, they have interesting stories. But do NOT become like them You are here cos u dont know what is happening….as soon as you do…you move on I am moving on That really is all from me I am off ta taa Thanks for the unhelp…cos really that is all i got here….which is why I am leaving as I am. It took me about 3 weeks to be answered in the first place when I first asked for help sorry to any new folks I am not really a bitter twisted individual…just write like one here you’ll see……

Response:

To you type two’s, like me, well you probably don’t deserve it….but likely you brought it on. Type 2 diabetes, unless you are say….50 or so…is pretty much self induced

in what way did I bring it on myself?…I didn’t choose my genes…I’m 45 and even at my heaviest I’ve not been overweight…I’ve stayed fit…travelled mostly by bike or on foot…eaten the right foods in the right combinations I just come from a family that gets auto immune conditions — eric www.ericjarvis.co.uk "I am a man of many parts, unfortunately most of them are no longer in stock"

Response:

your nickname says it all Was that supposed to be an insult? I shouldn’t worry Emma, silly bugger cant even count.

S’okay – I had to check to see whether it was one as it wasn’t very good! ‘One Last Word’, he must have written a couple of hundred in the first post and still hasn’t shut his gob yet!

Sad thing is he thinks he’s causing a "stir" but really he’s just making a fool of himself. — Emma                            http://altgallery.shows.it The Chocolate Monster           http://chocmonster.rules.it

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Eric, your words also describe me perfectly. Grandmother, two great-uncles, brother, and that`s not necessarily a complete list

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To you type two’s, like me, well you probably don’t deserve it….but likely you brought it on. Type 2 diabetes, unless you are say….50 or so…is pretty much self induced in what way did I bring it on myself?…I didn’t choose my genes…I’m 45 and even at my heaviest I’ve not been overweight…I’ve stayed fit…travelled mostly by bike or on foot…eaten the right foods in the right combinations I just come from a family that gets auto immune conditions — eric www.ericjarvis.co.uk "I am a man of many parts, unfortunately most of them are no longer in stock"

Response:

Shuttup you dick, nuff said! The Surfer guy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In a moment when I look back on what I have said I realise people have taken what I have said personally To all type one diabetics…I sympathise, you did nothing, it hit you, it is a bitch and you really don’t deserve it. To you type two’s, like me, well you probably don’t deserve it….but likely you brought it on. Type 2 diabetes, unless you are say….50 or so…is pretty much self induced So yeah, maybe i am angry. BUT I realise I can do something about it. I know i can reduce the effects….AND have….by following orders. I now know how to control not only my diabetes but also me This is where I was going with the newbie comments folks….by all means listen to those in here, they have interesting stories. But do NOT become like them You are here cos u dont know what is happening….as soon as you do…you move on I am moving on That really is all from me I am off ta taa Thanks for the unhelp…cos really that is all i got here….which is why I am leaving as I am. It took me about 3 weeks to be answered in the first place when I first asked for help sorry to any new folks I am not really a bitter twisted individual…just write like one here you’ll see……

Response:

If you eat a deep pan pizza then you can be ok Eat to the meter…ok ….also know what you personally can eat…I do….. Like I have said, I can control my diabetes the way everyone does…or should. By medication, diet and exercise. If you do not do all of these then you will not get better. For all those who think i am selfish or stupid I am not.

You are if you think you’ll "get better". All the above help, everyone knows it. Loose weight if overweight and exercise more. That is my "secret" or "solution" and no I am not afraid to share it. Do what you are told….it’s simple. And yes, young type 2’s pretty much always have a hand in their fate

And so the words are etched in stone. this really is my final word

Like we believe you? The Trebster signing off for good and for his own better

own better?? Anyway… bye. btw, I thought you said you were leaving DAYS ago? Beav

Response:

Are you still here? Fuck ME you must be a sadder bastard than I gave you credit for. Does this guy ever fuck off?!! NUFF SED!!!! ….oh sorry, i don’t have a dictionary to hand

Carry on like this Surfer and you’ll have to spend a week in "alt.spelling.who.gives.a.stih" Beav

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – your nickname says it all Was that supposed to be an insult? I shouldn’t worry Emma, silly bugger cant even count. ‘One Last Word’, he must have written a couple of hundred in the first post and still hasn’t shut his gob yet! — Philip Martin. Happily Insulin Jetting. — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

He is just trolling now, the more bites he gets the longer it will take for him to find the door, so I would suggest ignoring him till either he has something sensible to say or find the door and closes it with him on the other side. — DaveT T1 since 1955 — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

your nickname says it all Was that supposed to be an insult?

I shouldn’t worry Emma, silly bugger cant even count. ‘One Last Word’, he must have written a couple of hundred in the first post and still hasn’t shut his gob yet! — Philip Martin. Happily Insulin Jetting. — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

your nickname says it all

Was that supposed to be an insult? — Emma                            http://altgallery.shows.it The Chocolate Monster           http://chocmonster.rules.it

Response:

your nickname says it all damn I did it again

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Trebster signing off for good and for his own better I’m getting a feeling of Deja Vu… — Emma                            http://altgallery.shows.it The Chocolate Monster           http://chocmonster.rules.it

Response:

don’t know ’bout deja wotsit, but feel we have been here before LOL

Response:

The Trebster signing off for good and for his own better

I’m getting a feeling of Deja Vu… — Emma                            http://altgallery.shows.it The Chocolate Monster           http://chocmonster.rules.it

Response:

If you eat a deep pan pizza then you can be ok Eat to the meter…ok ….also know what you personally can eat…I do….. Like I have said, I can control my diabetes the way everyone does…or should. By medication, diet and exercise. If you do not do all of these then you will not get better. For all those who think i am selfish or stupid I am not. All the above help, everyone knows it. Loose weight if overweight and exercise more. That is my "secret" or "solution" and no I am not afraid to share it. Do what you are told….it’s simple. And yes, young type 2’s pretty much always have a hand in their fate this really is my final word The Trebster signing off for good and for his own better

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Isn’t it funny how some peopel have such delusions of grandeur? Does Treb really think he’s right, and everyone else here is wrong, I never knew arrogance of that level really existed. Shame really Stef In a moment when I look back on what I have said I realise people have taken what I have said personally To all type one diabetics…I sympathise, you did nothing, it hit you, it is a bitch and you really don’t deserve it. To you type two’s, like me, well you probably don’t deserve it….but likely you brought it on. Type 2 diabetes, unless you are say….50 or so…is pretty much self induced So yeah, maybe i am angry. BUT I realise I can do something about it. I know i can reduce the effects….AND have….by following orders. I now know how to control not only my diabetes but also me This is where I was going with the newbie comments folks….by all means listen to those in here, they have interesting stories. But do NOT become like them You are here cos u dont know what is happening….as soon as you do…you move on I am moving on That really is all from me I am off ta taa Thanks for the unhelp…cos really that is all i got here….which is why I am leaving as I am. It took me about 3 weeks to be answered in the first place when I first asked for help sorry to any new folks I am not really a bitter twisted individual…just write like one here you’ll see……

Response:

Question:

has any other ideas for good food with three ingredients or less that won’t give me a migraine Make a batch of refried beans and keep it like peanut butter in the fridge.

Unfortunately, I really really hate beans. When needed you just spread in a wrap and just add your cheeze and toppings and you have a burrito in five minutes with a microwave. Make a big batch of vegetarian chili and freeze in ziplocks. {mushrooms,mixed beans,chickpeas,greenpeppers , onion , whatever you like.

I also hate mushrooms.  It’s not so easy being a vegetarian, hating beans and mushrooms.  Do you see why cheese and Chinese food are kind of crucial now? Riin

Response:

has any other ideas for good food with three ingredients or less that won’t give me a migraine

Make a batch of refried beans and keep it like peanut butter in the fridge. When needed you just spread in a wrap and just add your cheeze and toppings and you have a burrito in five minutes with a microwave. Make a big batch of vegetarian chili and freeze in ziplocks. {mushrooms,mixed beans,chickpeas,greenpeppers , onion , whatever you like. Works for me .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus was a vegetarian!  http://www.koolpages.com/ironjustice Jesus was a vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

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Hate to say this but lots of pesto contains cheese, found some vegan ones that don’t. As for cheese, hard cheese, soft cheese, curd, cottage, fromage frai, creme fresh (sp? and I was sure that wasn’t cheese) and anything that makes any gesture to being cheese is cheese for my migraines.  Just back from Switzerland yesterday, wonderful holiday, but did I find not being able to touch either the cheese or the chocolate frustrating. What to put on the bread, olive spread, most antipastos you can buy in jars, tartex (yeast based spread).  And check the ingredients listing of some of the chinese sauces, in the UK its about 50/50 for which contain monosodium glutamate and which don’t. Liz

Response:

I’ve been looking at the list of food triggers more seriously lately. Man, what the hell am I supposed to eat?  A lot of the things aren’t a problem for me since I’m a vegetarian and I don’t drink and I think pickles and sauerkraut are disgusting.  But I love cheese.  I’ve been trying to avoid it by eating more Chinese food (from Whole Foods, no MSG), but now I see that soy sauce is on the list.  Well, damn.  So I’m thinking maybe I’ll try eating more Indian food (taking the list with me to the store to make sure there’s no lentils or anything else on the list…), but other than that…  The problem is I really hate cooking. I need simple food.  And I really love cheese.  So  I’m wondering about that.  The list says aged cheese.  What is aged cheese and what isn’t aged cheese?  All I’ve been able to determine is that cheddar and Swiss (my favorites) are aged (waah!) and it’s safe for me to eat Velveeta. Well, sorry to be a food snob here, but Velveeta is crap.  I’m not eating Velveeta.  Can someone tell me some *real* cheeses I can eat? I’ve read that cottage cheese is ok, and that’s all well and good, but I’m looking for something I can put on a nice big thick slice of Zingerman’s rustic Italian bread with some pesto and put in the oven for about 15 minutes.  That’s my level of cooking.  I hate to cook, but I want *good* food.  And if anyone has any other ideas for good food with three ingredients or less that won’t give me a migraine, *please* tell me! Riin, the lazy, hungry food snob with lots of migraines

Response:

Man, I am eagerly awaiting responses to this request! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for something I can put on a nice big thick slice of Zingerman’s rustic Italian bread with some pesto and put in the oven for about 15 minutes.  … if anyone has any other ideas for good food with three ingredients or less that won’t give me a migraine, *please* tell me! Riin, the lazy, hungry food snob with lots of migraines

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been looking at the list of food triggers more seriously lately. Man, what the hell am I supposed to eat?  A lot of the things aren’t a problem for me since I’m a vegetarian and I don’t drink and I think pickles and sauerkraut are disgusting.  But I love cheese.  I’ve been trying to avoid it by eating more Chinese food (from Whole Foods, no MSG), but now I see that soy sauce is on the list. I’ve done the food elimination route and don’t have food triggers. Hubby does have a huge list of food allergies though and there are many foods we can’t even have in the house as the odour is enough to cause anaphylaxis (peanuts, nuts, citrus, onions  . . .) and others which we must be extrememly careful not to allow to come in contact with anything he may have contact with. He can’t have anything with lactose at all (not even as a filler in meds).  It may be a matter of experimenting. Mild cheese is often safer than old which is the most aged. Softer cheese is often safer than harder cheese, I think. Some can tolerate yogourt but not cheese etc. You might try these links. http://www.msnbc.com/modules/headache_foods/data/print.asp  Allowed # Milk (homogenized, 2% or skim) # Certain cheeses: # American # cottage # gouda # farmer # ricotta # cream cheese # Velveeta # yogurt # Limit sour cream to 1/2 cup daily

What is farmer cheese? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Not Recommended # Aged, mature cheese: # blue # Boursault # brick # Brie types # Camembert types # cheddar # Swiss # Roquefort # Stilton # mozzarella # parmesan # provolone # Romano # Emmentaler

Oh, I get it.  All the cheeses I like are not recommended.  Well, that figures. http://www.widomaker.com/~jnavia/tannins/index.html http://www.meldrum.demon.co.uk/migraine/ Scroll down to 4. Triggers http://www.ama-assn.org/special/migraine/support/educate/causes.htm http://www.achenet.org/articlessave/marcus2.htm http://www.achenet.org/articlessave/Nov98/mausfood.htm http://www.achenet.org/kids/triggers.php http://www.achenet.org/prevention/understanding/diet.php

Well, I do like the sites that suggest that the whole food trigger idea is a bunch of hooey, for most people at least.  Geez, I’ve gotta eat something!  Frankly, if something can take up to 24 hours to "trigger" a headache, I’m not sure how I’d ever identify it.  I do know if I eat chocolate when I’ve already got a slight headache, it makes the pain much much worse, but that’s pretty immediate, so it’s hard to miss.  If there’s no pain to start with though, it doesn’t cause any.  Other than that, I’ve never noticed any food causing any headaches.  It’s just that I’m still having migraines every day.  So I understand the theory of trying to eliminate triggers.  It’s just I don’t understand it in practice.  There are already so few foods I eat, if I eliminate too many more, I’d be kind of worried about some kind of weird nutritional deficiency.  I just don’t know what I would eat.  There are already a lot of nights that I stand in the kitchen and think there’s just nothing there I want to eat.  I just have some bread and cheese because it’s all I can be bothered with. Riin

Response:

hello, I have found through the years that it is mostly trial and errors for food triggers. I don’t have a problem with all the foods on the list.  Find out what works or doesn’t work for you. I cannot tolerate orange cheddar cheese,( i’ve heard its the dye in the cheese??) but i can eat others like mozzarella, and gouda. I stick to the white cheeses and i am fine. As for chocolate, carob is a good substitute for cravings…chinese food is ok with a place you know you can handle, i can’t have any MSG.  Aspartame and caffeine are also huge triggers for me, so i have to read labels. I find that I crave exactly what i am sensitive to and what gives me migraines, but its worth it to me not to have them. Welcome to migraine life! Cheers, Psylocke — "Friends are bacon bits in the salad of life"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been looking at the list of food triggers more seriously lately. Man, what the hell am I supposed to eat?  A lot of the things aren’t a problem for me since I’m a vegetarian and I don’t drink and I think pickles and sauerkraut are disgusting.  But I love cheese.  I’ve been trying to avoid it by eating more Chinese food (from Whole Foods, no MSG), but now I see that soy sauce is on the list.  Well, damn.  So I’m thinking maybe I’ll try eating more Indian food (taking the list with me to the store to make sure there’s no lentils or anything else on the list…), but other than that…  The problem is I really hate cooking. I need simple food.  And I really love cheese.  So  I’m wondering about that.  The list says aged cheese.  What is aged cheese and what isn’t aged cheese?  All I’ve been able to determine is that cheddar and Swiss (my favorites) are aged (waah!) and it’s safe for me to eat Velveeta. Well, sorry to be a food snob here, but Velveeta is crap.  I’m not eating Velveeta.  Can someone tell me some *real* cheeses I can eat? I’ve read that cottage cheese is ok, and that’s all well and good, but I’m looking for something I can put on a nice big thick slice of Zingerman’s rustic Italian bread with some pesto and put in the oven for about 15 minutes.  That’s my level of cooking.  I hate to cook, but I want *good* food.  And if anyone has any other ideas for good food with three ingredients or less that won’t give me a migraine, *please* tell me! Riin, the lazy, hungry food snob with lots of migraines

Response:

Hi Riin, Remember, you’re probably not allergic to all the things on the list!  I have many of the common triggers (chocolate, citrus fruit, red wine) but luckily I can eat as much cheese as I like. The tricky bit is figuring out which foods you are allergic to, and which are OK for you. Best of luck, Sal

Response:

I found that chocolate that contains "Chocolate Liqueur" are a bad trigger for me.  All "good" choclolate cantains this.  Like Fanny May, Rustle Stover, and Godiva.  This was a BIG dissapointment for me. Then I found out that the cheaper chocolates don’t have chocolate liqueur!! Like "Hersheys"  Good news! Teresa

Response:

I’ve been looking at the list of food triggers more seriously lately. Man, what the hell am I supposed to eat?

If you are really troubled by headaches, and you want to find out if your headaches have any food triggers, you might need to get by on a limited diet for a time.  If you have other restrictions like being a vegetarian, it might be a very limited diet.  It might even be a very limited diet with foods you don’t like very much.  (The very restrictive diet is a temporary thing.  You only have to do it for about a month. Then you re-introduce the "suspect foods" to your diet one at a time.) If your headaches are bad enough, and difficult enough to control, then the hassle of avoiding foods you like (or even eating some foods you don’t much like, if it’s necessary to avoid going hungry for a few weeks) will be worthwhile.  Compared to a migraine, it seems fairly trivial.  Compared to a lot of drug side effects I’ve experienced over the years, it seems fairly trivial.  If the hassle of changing your diet temporarily is NOT worth it to you, you should recognize that you are making that choice because of your values and priorities, and you will have to live with the consequences. A lot of the things aren’t a problem for me since I’m a vegetarian and I don’t drink and I think pickles and sauerkraut are disgusting.  But I love cheese.  I’ve been trying to avoid it by eating more Chinese food (from Whole Foods, no MSG), but now I see that soy sauce is on the list.  Well, damn.  So I’m thinking maybe I’ll try eating more Indian food (taking the list with me to the store to make sure there’s no lentils or anything else on the list…), but other than that…  The problem is I really hate cooking. I need simple food.  

Hard-boiled eggs are a good, simple, source of protein.  So are chick- peas.  You can get them in cans (rinse off the liquid they are packed in) and add them to pasta dishes or green salads.  Get hummus or baba gannouj from the organic store, and dip bread, and raw or steamed vegetables in them.   And I really love cheese.  So  I’m wondering about that.  The list says aged cheese.  What is aged cheese and what isn’t aged cheese?  All I’ve been able to determine is that cheddar and Swiss (my favorites) are aged (waah!) and it’s safe for me to eat Velveeta. Well, sorry to be a food snob here, but Velveeta is crap.  I’m not eating Velveeta.  Can someone tell me some *real* cheeses I can eat?

Mozzerella and ricotta are safe.  So are cream cheese and cottage cheese. Yogurt is perfectly safe.  People make a kind of cheese out of yogurt by squeezing some of the water out of yogurt…it’s called labne, and it’s not bad at all (kinda like cream cheese, but better with pita than bagels or Zingerman’s breads.)  Parmesan or feta cheese are *very* aged, they are my worst trigger foods. I’ve read that cottage cheese is ok, and that’s all well and good, but I’m looking for something I can put on a nice big thick slice of Zingerman’s rustic Italian bread with some pesto and put in the oven for about 15 minutes.  

I would recommend skipping the pesto, using mozzerella cheese and some basil leaves on the bread.  Maybe rub the bread with a clove of garlic? Real pesto has cheese, so I make my own without cheese, but you don’t want to cook at all… That’s my level of cooking.  I hate to cook, but I want *good* food.  And if anyone has any other ideas for good food with three ingredients or less that won’t give me a migraine, *please* tell me! Riin, the lazy, hungry food snob with lots of migraines

Fresh fruits and vegetables will usually taste better than packaged stuff.  There’s usually good produce at the Coop, though it’s not cheap.  And Mejer’s isn’t terrible.  I don’t know what "won’t give you a migraine."  I don’t know what your migraine triggers are. Neither do you, yet.  But if it’s on the list you got from the headache clinic, don’t eat it for a month.  If you have the faintest suspicion it might be a problem for you, don’t eat *that* either.   Whatever’s left, I would advise you to eat in the freshest, finest form available to you.  Make sure you take in enough protein and enough total calories…starving yourself is not healthy.   After the month of abstaining from all the suspect foods, introduce them one at a time.  If cheese is your favorite, you might start with medium-aged cheese.  So you’d have swiss and cheddar cheeses at breakfast, lunch, and dinner one happy Monday and Tuesday.  Then wait. If you don’t have migraines (or an increase, if you have CDH) by Wednesday night, can conclude that those cheeses are ok for you.  So Thursday you might try parmesan.  Or maybe something else is your second-favorite food. I saw your other post, where it looked like you didn’t even want to try, because you’d read that the food trigger concept didn’t apply to most people.  I guess it all comes down to how desperate you are.  *shrug* But I would advise you to NOT try this half-heartedly.  Don’t cut out some cheeses, and then eat more chinese foods and fake cheeses (the yeasts that give the fake cheese flavor are headache triggers for some people, including me) to make up for it.  If you cut out everything that could *possibly* be a trigger, no leaving things out because you love to eat them, or because it would be too much hassle to exclude them from your diet or your lifestyle…then the elimination diet will have a much better chance of working for you.  Even if it doesn’t work, you will be confident it’s not working because your migraines don’t have food triggers, not because you wimped out of doing the diet. Adrian Turtle sidewalk radical

Response:

What is farmer cheese? What I know as farmer cheese is the same as Colby, I think.

Hey, something I like finally!  Woohoo! Riin

Response:

Hi Riin, Sorry to take so long, but I just got back on deck.  It may be a matter of experimenting. Mild cheese is often safer than old which is the most aged. Softer cheese is often safer than harder cheese, I think. Some can tolerate yogourt but not cheese etc.

Aged cheeses are cheeses that are kept for a time before selling.  I went that route at one time and found I could eat Ricotta, Cottage Cheese, Brie, Camembert, Mozzarella.   OTOH.  It might not be the cheese.  I was having hormonal migraines at one stage, and was put on a diet free of aged cheeses, prepared meats, red wine, smoking, mushrooms, coffee, tea and various other things I don’t remember.  With a bit of experimentation I found I could have everthing except large quantities of prepared meats.  It means I can’t have sausages, but I can have cheese.  I much prefer cheese Well, I do like the sites that suggest that the whole food trigger idea is a bunch of hooey, for most people at least.  Geez, I’ve gotta eat something!  Frankly, if something can take up to 24 hours to "trigger" a headache, I’m not sure how I’d ever identify it.  I do know if I eat chocolate when I’ve already got a slight headache, it makes the pain much much worse, but that’s pretty immediate, so it’s hard to miss.  If there’s no pain to start with though, it doesn’t cause any.  Other than that, I’ve never noticed any food causing any headaches.  It’s just that I’m still having migraines every day.  So I understand the theory of trying to eliminate triggers.  It’s just I don’t understand it in practice.  There are already so few foods I eat, if I eliminate too many more, I’d be kind of worried about some kind of weird nutritional deficiency.  I just don’t know what I would eat.  There are already a lot of nights that I stand in the kitchen and think there’s just nothing there I want to eat.  I just have some bread and cheese because it’s all I can be bothered with.

OTOH again.  It might not be any one food, but it might be an aggregate of foods, so if you are able to do the Elimination Diet and find out if there is a pattern. OTOH again.  There must be several hands here.  It might not be food related at all and you would be able to eat anything you want. Good luck Suzie

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". I cannot tolerate orange cheddar cheese,( i’ve heard its the dye in the cheese??)

No, it’s not the dye but the tyramine content of the cheese, & aged cheeses like cheddar & soft cheeses like Brie seem to have more of the offending stuff.

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    I’m pretty sure, my migraine is mainly triggered by food   and nutrition problems.   Alcohol is a very bad trigger.   But also lying wrong after eating,   eating much in the evening.   I have nausea,gas,headache and it often improves a bit if   I walk, belch and fart.It lasts 1-3 days.   There seems to be also a genetic factor, since   mother and sister also have this, not quite the same   but similar.   It started in the 40s.  Have you been checked for acid problems?  I have acid reflux and I really  Michelle yes, I do have reflux. Interesting that you found out But I didn’t observe any connection with my migraine, nor did I ever read that one can cause the other ?  Yup! Sounds like you’ve got food intolerances like mine.  http://users.bigpond.net.au/allergydietitian/index.html  Ginnie I’ve tried to find out which food causes it, but it’s not so clear. Sometimes some foods are good, sometimes not. Seems more what I’m doing during nutrition, what I do after eating, how I lie at night. Staying awake long at night is also a trigger. what chemicals can I have searched in my blood for diagnosis during an attack ? I’ve read about serotonin in brain causes migraine, can it be tested ? What other things can be tested, if I have my blood examined while having migraine ? when/ how often migraine ? Data seeked for statistics I’m documenting the days with migraine now since ~1 year and printing the chart. There were clusters in Apr,Aug,Sep,Oct. Is someone else doing it ? Where can I get more data to type it into computer and analyse/compare the charts ?

Response:

You should get checked for food allergies. — To email me remove the X’s in my email address

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m pretty sure, my migraine is mainly triggered by food and nutrition problems. Alcohol is a very bad trigger. But also lying wrong after eating, eating much in the evening. I have nausea,gas,headache and it often improves a bit if I walk, belch and fart.It lasts 1-3 days. There seems to be also a genetic factor, since mother and sister also have this, not quite the same but similar. It started in the 40s. someone else with these symptoms ?

Response:

Have you been checked for acid problems?  I have acid reflux and I really suffer if I lie down after eating.  I’m not supposed to eat after a point that is three hours before bedtime.  I don’t typically follow that routine because I’m a night owl with insomnia, but I notice my problems are worse if I don’t control it. Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m pretty sure, my migraine is mainly triggered by food and nutrition problems. Alcohol is a very bad trigger. But also lying wrong after eating, eating much in the evening. I have nausea,gas,headache and it often improves a bit if I walk, belch and fart.It lasts 1-3 days. There seems to be also a genetic factor, since mother and sister also have this, not quite the same but similar. It started in the 40s. someone else with these symptoms ?

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I guess I identified acid reflux because I’m a sufferer and a night owl. You just happened to mention many things at once.  I love wine coolers, but have to be very careful when I drink them.  Sometimes they kick me right away with a migraine.  I never seem to know when I can have one and when I can’t.  So avoiding alcohol is probably a good thing for you, too I don’t know if there is any connection between acid and headaches or migraines.  I do know it’s somewhat common for that to affect people in their 40s. Maybe avoiding some of the foods that give you such a bad reaction would be the first course of action…sometimes that’s hard to do…I sure know it. Good luck, Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I’m pretty sure, my migraine is mainly triggered by food   and nutrition problems.   Alcohol is a very bad trigger.   But also lying wrong after eating,   eating much in the evening.   I have nausea,gas,headache and it often improves a bit if   I walk, belch and fart.It lasts 1-3 days.   There seems to be also a genetic factor, since   mother and sister also have this, not quite the same   but similar.   It started in the 40s.  Have you been checked for acid problems?  I have acid reflux and I really  Michelle yes, I do have reflux. Interesting that you found out But I didn’t observe any connection with my migraine, nor did I ever read that one can cause the other ?  Yup! Sounds like you’ve got food intolerances like mine.  http://users.bigpond.net.au/allergydietitian/index.html  Ginnie I’ve tried to find out which food causes it, but it’s not so clear. Sometimes some foods are good, sometimes not. Seems more what I’m doing during nutrition, what I do after eating, how I lie at night. Staying awake long at night is also a trigger. what chemicals can I have searched in my blood for diagnosis during an attack ? I’ve read about serotonin in brain causes migraine, can it be tested ? What other things can be tested, if I have my blood examined while having migraine ? when/ how often migraine ? Data seeked for statistics I’m documenting the days with migraine now since ~1 year and printing the chart. There were clusters in Apr,Aug,Sep,Oct. Is someone else doing it ? Where can I get more data to type it into computer and analyse/compare the charts ?

Response:

Yup! Sounds like you’ve got food intolerances like mine. Read all the sections on "Food Intolerance" at this site: http://users.bigpond.net.au/allergydietitian/index.html It’ll amaze you, just as it did me the other day. And thanks again to Karen for the link. Ginnie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m pretty sure, my migraine is mainly triggered by food and nutrition problems. Alcohol is a very bad trigger. But also lying wrong after eating, eating much in the evening. I have nausea,gas,headache and it often improves a bit if I walk, belch and fart.It lasts 1-3 days. There seems to be also a genetic factor, since mother and sister also have this, not quite the same but similar. It started in the 40s. someone else with these symptoms ?

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OTOH again.  There must be several hands here.

Boy! Is that ever the truth!

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I’m pretty sure, my migraine is mainly triggered by food and nutrition problems. Alcohol is a very bad trigger. But also lying wrong after eating, eating much in the evening. I have nausea,gas,headache and it often improves a bit if I walk, belch and fart.It lasts 1-3 days. There seems to be also a genetic factor, since mother and sister also have this, not quite the same but similar. It started in the 40s. someone else with these symptoms ?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I used to make a mix in a large baggie…almonds, peanuts, pecans, sunflower nuts, and dried cranberry.  I used to take that to work with me as a good protein snack…also put it on my salads. Just an idea Michelle Yummy!  I love cranberries in all forms. My sister gave me some chocolate covered cranberries and also has brought me cranberry cheesecake and cranberry fudge, cranberry bark (using white chocolate, if I remember). Almonds and I think pecans are good for magnesium. So are apricots. I keep some dried ones.  I munch on almonds or apricots when I have a migraine. I love pecans. Peanuts never enter the house due to allergies nor do most other nuts.  I usually keep some dried fruit with me. I need to snack and eat frequently. Kadee

How much do you weigh, sweetie pie? George

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Thanks Talorel.  I’ll give it a try. Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I didn’t go vegan – still ate the eggs, dairy,that type of stuff. The only thing I cut out was the flesh foods. Wow!  So a totally vegan diet.  No diary, eggs, fish, or animal products of any sort?  Any bread label I’ve read lately has whey/eggs, so you must of shopped the health food store or made your own bread. Argye, were you vegan too, or did you have some dairy/eggs? Last time I went veg was in College.  It was great although I was a little protein starved most of the time. I caved after a 100 mile bicycle ride and my grandmother’s chicken on the table.  (It was really good.) Erik Like I said, it took six weeks before I was sure, but the headaches stopped within about two and a half.  My diet was about 70% fruits and veggies, the rest was pasta, rice, breads, that type of thing.   All protein came from nuts and seeds.  I hope this is the end of it for you too Thanks for the info….meats, hmmm, lots of additives, preservatives, and hormones…maybe that was it for you?? Wow, me too! I just posted about my experience on a vegetarian diet. My migraines have stopped in about a week and I’m not even taking any med. Not sure though if they are also somehow hormonally related to my cycle, so I guess I’ll just have to wait a couple of more weeks to be sure that they’re gone for good. Argye

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My daughter, a registered dietician once told me  meat is a COMPLETE protien.  When people substitute other foods for meat they must be careful  in order to have complete protien in their diet.  I think she said milk and eggs were complete protein.  Of course fish is too.  I cannot remember all he details of what she said.  I was asking for a friend at the time not for myself.  Just thought I would mention it. Barbara

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My daughter, a registered dietician once told me  meat is a COMPLETE protien.  When people substitute other foods for meat they must be careful  in order to have complete protien in their diet.  I think she said milk and eggs were complete protein.  Of course fish is too.  I cannot remember all he details of what she said.  I was asking for a friend at the time not for myself.  Just thought I would mention it.

It also isn’t as important to have "complete" proteins as was thought when _Diet for a Small Planet_ came out.  Most first world vegetarians get plenty of protein. Priscilla — "It is the test of a good religion whether you can joke about it."                                       –G.K. Chesterton

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This was a concern for me, cutting out what I had thought was my only source of protein.  During my time on the diet, though, my Doctor said she’d never seen me so healthy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My daughter, a registered dietician once told me  meat is a COMPLETE protien.  When people substitute other foods for meat they must be careful  in order to have complete protien in their diet.  I think she said milk and eggs were complete protein.  Of course fish is too.  I cannot remember all he details of what she said.  I was asking for a friend at the time not for myself.  Just thought I would mention it. Barbara

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Vegans have problems with B-12 and they need to mix various beans/seeds to get the full amino acid spread.  Tempeh (moldy soy beans by any other description) easily provides the B-12 as well as some other sources or supplements. Fortunately, this isn’t a strict vegan diet.  There should be plenty of protein from eggs, dairy, beans, seeds, and nuts on this diet. Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This was a concern for me, cutting out what I had thought was my only source of protein.  During my time on the diet, though, my Doctor said she’d never seen me so healthy My daughter, a registered dietician once told me  meat is a COMPLETE protien.  When people substitute other foods for meat they must be careful  in order to have complete protien in their diet.  I think she said milk and eggs were complete protein.  Of course fish is too.  I cannot remember all he details of what she said.  I was asking for a friend at the time not for myself.  Just thought I would mention it. Barbara

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I used to make a mix in a large baggie…almonds, peanuts, pecans, sunflower nuts, and dried cranberry.  I used to take that to work with me as a good protein snack…also put it on my salads. Just an idea Michelle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Argye, were you vegan too, or did you have some dairy/eggs? Sorry, what I meant was that I stopped eating all meat and fish. I still eat eggs and cheeses, bagels, butter, etc. Just discovered nuts taste good. I haven’t read any labels but I guess I’ll have to. Last time I went veg was in College.  It was great although I was a little protein starved most of the time. It’s only been about a week so far, the migraines diminishing gradually each day. Not sure if my migraines are gone for good or if they even were related to all the big Macs…but hey, why look a gift horse… Argye

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I didn’t go vegan – still ate the eggs, dairy,that type of stuff. The only thing I cut out was the flesh foods. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow!  So a totally vegan diet.  No diary, eggs, fish, or animal products of any sort?  Any bread label I’ve read lately has whey/eggs, so you must of shopped the health food store or made your own bread. Argye, were you vegan too, or did you have some dairy/eggs? Last time I went veg was in College.  It was great although I was a little protein starved most of the time. I caved after a 100 mile bicycle ride and my grandmother’s chicken on the table.  (It was really good.) Erik Like I said, it took six weeks before I was sure, but the headaches stopped within about two and a half.  My diet was about 70% fruits and veggies, the rest was pasta, rice, breads, that type of thing.  All protein came from nuts and seeds.  I hope this is the end of it for you too Thanks for the info….meats, hmmm, lots of additives, preservatives, and hormones…maybe that was it for you?? Wow, me too! I just posted about my experience on a vegetarian diet. My migraines have stopped in about a week and I’m not even taking any med. Not sure though if they are also somehow hormonally related to my cycle, so I guess I’ll just have to wait a couple of more weeks to be sure that they’re gone for good. Argye

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Used alot of seeds too – sesame seeds are said to be high in calcium as well – used them on salads, in soup – just about everything.  I always have large bags of peanuts in the house – mixed nuts as a treat – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My diet was about 70% fruits and veggies, the rest was pasta, rice, breads, that type of thing.  All protein came from nuts and seeds.  I hope this is the end of it for you too Thanks.  Fruits? Veggies? Nuts? The only reason I tried the nuts is cause I got hungry and had them around the house as a treat for the birds. Come to think of it, they like fruit and veggies too…and they don;t seem to get headaches  :-} Argye

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Thanks.  I’ve toyed with this idea for awhile anyway.  I think I’ll go in stages and see what happens. I’ve noticed a huge difference in the quality of meet when I moved from the West Coast to the East.  It’s tasteless  and smells bad, and (being a farm boy), it’s probably how it’s been raised.  There’s all sorts of unsavory stories of what happens in feed lots.  It wouldn’t take a lot of changes to remove red meat (and pork if you believe those "other white meat" ads) from my diet.  I’ll probably start here. Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Argye, were you vegan too, or did you have some dairy/eggs? Sorry, what I meant was that I stopped eating all meat and fish. I still eat eggs and cheeses, bagels, butter, etc. Just discovered nuts taste good. I haven’t read any labels but I guess I’ll have to. Last time I went veg was in College.  It was great although I was a little protein starved most of the time. It’s only been about a week so far, the migraines diminishing gradually each day. Not sure if my migraines are gone for good or if they even were related to all the big Macs…but hey, why look a gift horse… Argye

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Like I said, it took six weeks before I was sure, but the headaches stopped within about two and a half.  My diet was about 70% fruits and veggies, the rest was pasta, rice, breads, that type of thing.  All protein came from nuts and seeds.  I hope this is the end of it for you too – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the info….meats, hmmm, lots of additives, preservatives, and hormones…maybe that was it for you?? Wow, me too! I just posted about my experience on a vegetarian diet. My migraines have stopped in about a week and I’m not even taking any med. Not sure though if they are also somehow hormonally related to my cycle, so I guess I’ll just have to wait a couple of more weeks to be sure that they’re gone for good. Argye

Response:

Wow!  So a totally vegan diet.  No diary, eggs, fish, or animal products of any sort?  Any bread label I’ve read lately has whey/eggs, so you must of shopped the health food store or made your own bread. Argye, were you vegan too, or did you have some dairy/eggs? Last time I went veg was in College.  It was great although I was a little protein starved most of the time. I caved after a 100 mile bicycle ride and my grandmother’s chicken on the table.  (It was really good.) Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like I said, it took six weeks before I was sure, but the headaches stopped within about two and a half.  My diet was about 70% fruits and veggies, the rest was pasta, rice, breads, that type of thing.  All protein came from nuts and seeds.  I hope this is the end of it for you too Thanks for the info….meats, hmmm, lots of additives, preservatives, and hormones…maybe that was it for you?? Wow, me too! I just posted about my experience on a vegetarian diet. My migraines have stopped in about a week and I’m not even taking any med. Not sure though if they are also somehow hormonally related to my cycle, so I guess I’ll just have to wait a couple of more weeks to be sure that they’re gone for good. Argye

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OOO!  This sounds so familiar.  My dog, Ripple (not the Tasmanian, the other one) has terrible allergies.  In the past we have fed him a something called Prescription Diet Z/D which uses a process called hydrolyzation which breaks down the protein in their food so it is too small to cause an allergic reaction.  I wonder if it’s the same in humans…..(they do this with baby formula too to lessen the likelihood of developing allergies..) I don’t recommend you trying the dog food or the baby formula, however (VBG)!! Liz

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I never actually figured it out – even wild game that never saw a supermarket shelf would trigger one.  Dr figured it was something in the flesh proteins, because it went from venison and moose meat, to beef, pork, chicken, even fish and shellfish. Thanks for the info….meats, hmmm, lots of additives, preservatives, and hormones…maybe that was it for you?? Michelle I am a lurker – have been for months, and there is one thing I have not yet seen.  I suffered from the age of 16 to the age of 27, and took Fiorinal for most of that time.  I would average two to three a week, lasting two days each.  At the age of 27, I tried a new "diet", one that recommended, at least for the first while, vegetarianism. This, for someone who had eaten meat several times a week her whole life.  I tried it (more to lose weight than anything).  Within six weeks my migraines had completely stopped.  Six months later I went back to having meat in my diet, and they began again.  Stopped eating meat -they went away.  I spent 9 years as a vegetarian, and slowly put meat back into my diet less than a year ago, with succes.  This seems so simplistic, and I’m sure most have tried this, or something like it. It worked for me, and I got my life back at the age of 27 – I know I’m one of the lucky ones.  I only get the occasional one from weather changes – they are very dramatic here, and weather induced migraines are extremely common. I lurk here because my mother still suffers horribly, and her medication changes every time she goes to the dr., so I try to keep up with it. This board is a wealth of information, and you are all incredibly helpful.  When I think of what I went through, it barely scratches the surface compared to many of you.  I wish each and every one of you the best.

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I never actually figured it out – even wild game that never saw a supermarket shelf would trigger one.  Dr figured it was something in the flesh proteins, because it went from venison and moose meat, to beef, pork, chicken, even fish and shellfish. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the info….meats, hmmm, lots of additives, preservatives, and hormones…maybe that was it for you?? Michelle I am a lurker – have been for months, and there is one thing I have not yet seen.  I suffered from the age of 16 to the age of 27, and took Fiorinal for most of that time.  I would average two to three a week, lasting two days each.  At the age of 27, I tried a new "diet", one that recommended, at least for the first while, vegetarianism. This, for someone who had eaten meat several times a week her whole life.  I tried it (more to lose weight than anything).  Within six weeks my migraines had completely stopped.  Six months later I went back to having meat in my diet, and they began again.  Stopped eating meat -they went away.  I spent 9 years as a vegetarian, and slowly put meat back into my diet less than a year ago, with succes.  This seems so simplistic, and I’m sure most have tried this, or something like it. It worked for me, and I got my life back at the age of 27 – I know I’m one of the lucky ones.  I only get the occasional one from weather changes – they are very dramatic here, and weather induced migraines are extremely common. I lurk here because my mother still suffers horribly, and her medication changes every time she goes to the dr., so I try to keep up with it. This board is a wealth of information, and you are all incredibly helpful.  When I think of what I went through, it barely scratches the surface compared to many of you.  I wish each and every one of you the best.

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Thanks for the info….meats, hmmm, lots of additives, preservatives, and hormones…maybe that was it for you?? Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a lurker – have been for months, and there is one thing I have not yet seen.  I suffered from the age of 16 to the age of 27, and took Fiorinal for most of that time.  I would average two to three a week, lasting two days each.  At the age of 27, I tried a new "diet", one that recommended, at least for the first while, vegetarianism. This, for someone who had eaten meat several times a week her whole life.  I tried it (more to lose weight than anything).  Within six weeks my migraines had completely stopped.  Six months later I went back to having meat in my diet, and they began again.  Stopped eating meat -they went away.  I spent 9 years as a vegetarian, and slowly put meat back into my diet less than a year ago, with succes.  This seems so simplistic, and I’m sure most have tried this, or something like it. It worked for me, and I got my life back at the age of 27 – I know I’m one of the lucky ones.  I only get the occasional one from weather changes – they are very dramatic here, and weather induced migraines are extremely common. I lurk here because my mother still suffers horribly, and her medication changes every time she goes to the dr., so I try to keep up with it. This board is a wealth of information, and you are all incredibly helpful.  When I think of what I went through, it barely scratches the surface compared to many of you.  I wish each and every one of you the best.

Response:

I am a lurker – have been for months, and there is one thing I have not yet seen.  I suffered from the age of 16 to the age of 27, and took Fiorinal for most of that time.  I would average two to three a week, lasting two days each.  At the age of 27, I tried a new "diet", one that recommended, at least for the first while, vegetarianism. This, for someone who had eaten meat several times a week her whole life.  I tried it (more to lose weight than anything).  Within six weeks my migraines had completely stopped.  Six months later I went back to having meat in my diet, and they began again.  Stopped eating meat -they went away.  I spent 9 years as a vegetarian, and slowly put meat back into my diet less than a year ago, with succes.  This seems so simplistic, and I’m sure most have tried this, or something like it. It worked for me, and I got my life back at the age of 27 – I know I’m one of the lucky ones.  I only get the occasional one from weather changes – they are very dramatic here, and weather induced migraines are extremely common. I lurk here because my mother still suffers horribly, and her medication changes every time she goes to the dr., so I try to keep up with it. This board is a wealth of information, and you are all incredibly helpful.  When I think of what I went through, it barely scratches the surface compared to many of you.  I wish each and every one of you the best.

Response:

Thanks.  I’ve toyed with this idea for awhile anyway.  I think I’ll go in stages and see what happens. I’ve noticed a huge difference in the quality of meet when I moved from the West Coast to the East.  It’s tasteless  and smells bad, and (being a farm boy), it’s probably how it’s been raised.

        I have been in various "grades" of vegetarianism for about 25 years. The taboo of a vegetarian diet in the USA is that the only reason to do so is because one is "an animals rights wacko", totally ignoring the health and environmental reasons. I periodically eat buffalo,elk,etc. when I know it is wild and organically processed. I get no ill effects. However, just watching those TV commercials for hamburgers makes me feel a bit quesy.         A diet with a large quantity of animal products or protein runs the risk of introducing toxins that build up in large animals, exposure of which comes from the animal’s diet. That is especially true of farm raised cows and pigs, wherein the animal is fed antibiotics and such for growth purposes.         Years ago, the symptoms of DDT in Bald Eagles ingesting fish that were exposed to the poison was calcium depletion to the point where there eggshells were too thin. The DDT accumulated over time in the Eagle’s body, and I believe that many modern toxins being fed to animals is doing the same in humans. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.(~: rorschandt

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Could someone help me and tell me what the triggers are again that can cause a migraine.  I got a real bad one over the weekend and I think it may be due to my eating some nuts!

Everyone is different. but sulfites on fresh fruits, like grapes for instance. This chemical is hard to wash off because it is absorbed into the skin of fruit. It helps things like peaches after being sliced up to stay fresher(canned peaches possibly) lettuce in restaurants,is kept fresh looking with sulfites. The list where this may be used is long. Research everything you eat until you know what is safe. MSG is in so many things it’s unbelievable. This is also another major trigger for me. Particular nuts, not all, can trigger. You must pay attention to your diet and figure out your own personal triggers. Peanuts are bad for some people while macadamia nuts are the trigger for others. I wish you luck, Research is the answer, Caroline

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MSG (Monosodium Glutamate) Sodium Caseinate, Hydrogenized Vegetable Protein, Anonized Yeast, Hydrolyzed Protein, Natural Flavoring, Ripened Cheeses, Anything Fermented, Pickled or Marinated, Sour Cream, Yogurt, Nuts, Peanut Butter, Tea, Coffee, Cola Beverages, Fermented Sausage, Alcoholic Beverages, Bananas, Pods of Broad Beans (Lima, Navy & Pea Pods) Mostly food additives or fermented and pickled foods. I found the nuts to be the hardest to give up.  I just "loved" cashews. Diane K. – - – - – - – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could someone help me and tell me what the triggers are again that can cause a migraine.  I got a real bad one over the weekend and I think it may be due to my eating some nuts!

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Could someone help me and tell me what the triggers are again that can cause a migraine.  I got a real bad one over the weekend and I think it may be due to my eating some nuts!

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try these links for trigger: http://www.vh.org/Patients/IHB/Neuro/Migraine.html http://www.ama-assn.org/special/migraine/support/educate/causes.htm

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Question:

Bake at 350 degrees F (sorry, no clue what the centigrade equivalent is)

176.666666 (…) degrees Celcius — Jenn my puppies and kitties: http://www.geocities.com/pywhacket1971/dogs_1.html

Response:

Thanks Jenn,     Math was never one of my strong suits.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bake at 350 degrees F (sorry, no clue what the centigrade equivalent is) 176.666666 (…) degrees Celcius — Jenn my puppies and kitties: http://www.geocities.com/pywhacket1971/dogs_1.html

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Thanks Jenn,     Math was never one of my strong suits.

LOL! Here’s how I did it: http://www.mathconnect.com/temperature.htm — Jenn my puppies and kitties: http://www.geocities.com/pywhacket1971/dogs_1.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bake at 350 degrees F (sorry, no clue what the centigrade equivalent is) 176.666666 (…) degrees Celcius — Jenn my puppies and kitties: http://www.geocities.com/pywhacket1971/dogs_1.html

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Thanks Jenn,     Math was never one of my strong suits. LOL! Here’s how I did it: http://www.mathconnect.com/temperature.htm — Jenn my puppies and kitties: http://www.geocities.com/pywhacket1971/dogs_1.html

Ah Hah!  Cheater cheater. I knew there was some formula that involved subtracting 70 and dividing it by the reciprocal of the numerator or some such stuff. At least you were smart enough to find a web site to do it for you.

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Hi, Check out the Canine Team Mates web site, http://www.canineteammates.com If you tell us what your dog can’t have, the problem, allergies etc., we can make special treats to suit and at no extra cost. we are prepared to ship and take foreign orders. Thanks, Paula

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Many dogs Love veggies….. Slices of carrot, pieces of green bean, slices of broccoli stem, popcorn with no salt or butter.  No fat in sight and very little carbohydrate….  Low risk of allergy. Jo Wolf

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Ken,     Hill’s still makes Prescription Diet Treats, at least here in the US. You might try to have your vet order them.     As an alternative you can take the canned food and slide it out as a whole "loaf". Slice it into patties about 3/8 inch thick (10mm) and then cut those into quarters. Bake at 350 degrees F (sorry, no clue what the centigrade equivalent is) for about 15 minutes or until thoroughly dried out. One caution the smell may not be reminiscent of a normal heartwarming kitchen smell.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All Hope you can help me? I have a 1year old Weimeraner bitch who has recently recovered from a bout of pancreatitus and a stroke resulting from the thickening of the blood. As you can imagine our vets has suggested that she be placed on Hills ID food to lessen the chance of a reoccurence. I urgently need a very low fat or diebetic treat to help with her training. Can any one suggest such a thing or do they have a recipe for making one. I know that Hills used to make a diebetic biscuit but i understand that they have stopped doing it. (At least here in the UK) Any suggestions would be appreciated. Ken Rane (Middlewich  U.K.)

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Hi All Hope you can help me? I have a 1year old Weimeraner bitch who has recently recovered from a bout of pancreatitus and a stroke resulting from the thickening of the blood. As you can imagine our vets has suggested that she be placed on Hills ID food to lessen the chance of a reoccurence. I urgently need a very low fat or diebetic treat to help with her training. Can any one suggest such a thing or do they have a recipe for making one. I know that Hills used to make a diebetic biscuit but i understand that they have stopped doing it. (At least here in the UK) Any suggestions would be appreciated. Ken Rane (Middlewich  U.K.)

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My vet suggested baking small clumps of the canned I/D to use as treats. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi All Hope you can help me? I have a 1year old Weimeraner bitch who has recently recovered from a bout of pancreatitus and a stroke resulting from the thickening of the blood. As you can imagine our vets has suggested that she be placed on Hills ID food to lessen the chance of a reoccurence. I urgently need a very low fat or diebetic treat to help with her training. Can any one suggest such a thing or do they have a recipe for making one. I know that Hills used to make a diebetic biscuit but i understand that they have stopped doing it. (At least here in the UK) Any suggestions would be appreciated. Ken Rane (Middlewich  U.K.)

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